East Coast Angel (ECA) won't return my Angel A4 Fly

[Roger7pball]

Sure he did the right thing but I think more right would have been asking some questions before purchasing.

To me these are two separate things, yes he did right by a handful of players but also one of the obstacles getting in the way of players embracing paintball is high prices. He is on both sides of that coin

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

I don’t think we need to turn this into a debate but I have bought and sold quite a bit, including lots, and have never asked or been asked if they were stolen goods. If someone has low enough morals to steal from others, you think they would be honest about it?

[the_matrix_guy]

What’s crazy to me is that the police didn’t do anything? Is it because not enough people bothered to call the detective assigned to this case? This is a clear case of larceny.

I will say this though: It’s never wise to take the law into your own hands like showing up to the criminal’s house. Unless it’s accompanied by law enforcement for identification purposes. As others alluded: that’s an easy way to get yourself killed or get yourself in serious legal hot water. How many cases have we seen of people going to prison for chasing down bad guys? Like someone chasing down the criminal who stole their vehicle and going to prison for using lethal force “after the fact”?

The law is very clear on this. And larceny particularly is a nonviolent crime / offense which means that any form of violence or threatening would not help your case in the eyes of a jury if something were to happen.What needs to happen is for the victims to make police reports and ask to speak to the detective in charge. It’s ridiculous that someone can get away with something like this.

[fullofpaint]

What’s crazy to me is that the police didn’t do anything?

I tried to file a police report when it happened. The cops in his town wouldn't take the report, said it had to come from my town since it was mailed from there, before they would do anything. But I live in Los Angeles and cops don't do anything here. Nobody ever answered the phone in LA and at the time I was out of town for several months and unable to go to a station to report in person. I would imagine a lot of people had a similar experience.

[the_matrix_guy]

This is very disconcerting. The cop that said that the report had to come from your local PD gave you false information. This day and age, due to cop shortages, the quality of law enforcement has gone down the tubes. Cops don’t even know the laws and are lazy POS with zero sense of integrity and community. I would try again. Ask to speak to a supervisor. And maybe if possible, ask the other victims to do the same. If enough people demand accountability, something will happen. Criminals / scammers in the PB community have been jailed/ fined for a single marker before. I remember the PBN theft thread. Law enforcement local to the scammers made arrests. This case is egregious in that you’re looking at approx. 5-10k worth of property

Sometimes you have to be crafty in your language, for instance, tell your local PD that the police in Brad’s jurisdiction is asking you for a sworn statement to be sent to them alongside a police report, etc for an ongoing grand larceny case

[Trbo323]

Respectfully, I think it's ridiculous to suggest he ask more questions. I've never once, in any sale, asked the seller if a lot was stolen… have you? Has anyone?

Yes actually, see next

I don't think we need to turn this into a debate but I have bought and sold quite a bit, including lots, and have never asked or been asked if they were stolen goods. If someone has low enough morals to steal from others, you think they would be honest about it?

I'm not saying ask the seller, ask the community. Especially items as high profile as a bunch of high end angels. My own automag, popped up on Craigslist for a very good price. Nothing wired about that, i went bought it and after meeting the seller decided they were a little sketch. So first thing i did was look around to see if anyone has reported a stolen mag in my area or anywhere really but I suspected it would be local. There was even a little paperwork with it, looked like (i think it was) skater if you know the name worked on it at some point, i reached out and contacted him but no new information.

I knew from when I bought it what I wanted to do to it but didn't go buying any parts until after I was satisfied it wasn't stolen.

Curated posted the angels for sale first and then was contacted by people saying those were their markers. Realistically giving them back was really the only move he could do. If he sold them he would likely have people coming after him for knowingly selling stolen goods or at a bare minimum destroy any reputation he has in the community basically being lumped in as an ECA accomplice.

I have no horse in this race, was just curious. In terms of Brad & Curated I think it's the difference between an unethical and ego-fueled businessman and an opportunistic capitalist. One is outright shitty and one is more ambiguous, though I do agree massive price hikes hurt the community as a whole. I have no real issue with Curated, but I won't be buying anything from him either.

Yeah from what I've seen I won't be either. Too much stuff in unknown shape, mislabeled or otherwise questionable for me to have confidence let alone the price tags.

And to be clear, I'm a flipper as well. That's how I fund playing paintball. The difference is I aim to pick up let's say a 98c for $20. Do a bunch of work on it and if I think my local market sells them for $60, then I price it at $60 except mine has a fresh rebuild and polished internals. I try to give players more for the same money in order to sell my product. To me it looks like curated buys stuff at market value, often not knowing what it is and then hikes the price up from there.

Like you said, sure, could be seen as an opportunity seeking capitalist. I feel like a lot of us agree that it's not necessarily good for the community as a whole and while no, one flipper isn't going to bring down paintball, if this is seen as an opportunity for other players to do the same then it becomes a trend and paintball gets so expensive that players leave on mass. If there's no interest, for whatever reason, there's no sport.

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[the_matrix_guy]

You also have to remember that market value isn't dictated by resellers. Rather, it's dictated by the market itself and by supply & demand. I think that some responsibility has to fall on the hoarders or collectors that feel the need to have 15+ of one kind of marker. I saw first hand how the Belsales EVO market was cornered by a handful of collectors amassing 20+ EVO's in their collection, and basically driving prices astronomically high for a marker that is not even that rare. Not like 1/12 or 1/18 Vikings and other rare markers which were the first to start passing that $2000 threshold (and mental barrier) around 2010.

So why do people feel the need to hoard 20+ of one type of marker? And why isnt this never mentioned like its absolutely normal and healthy. In any market you will have people selling things at market value and sometimes that market value is much higher than what they paid for. That is true for every single market and commodity. You also have liquidator companies in every single industry that buy higher volume / bulk for slightly less than market value, to resell. That is part of an economy. The liquidator is actually providing a service to the seller by facilitating the wholesale of their goods when the seller for whatever reason is unwilling or incapable of selling the goods individually, over longer time spans, to multiple buyers. Now of course, no one should be selling anything above market value. But again - market value is largely dictated by supply & demand. And no one shortens supply like the aforementioned collectors.