Mondern Concealer?

[un2xs]

If you wanted to duplicate the BOA Concealer... or at least approximate its rain guarding abilities... what barrel would you build upon? Would you go with a Freaked barrel or just one of the ported ones?

[Dusty Bottoms]

I'd do something with straight porting like a J&J Ceramic. However, not to state what's always said about this stuff anytime it comes up, but the ATF takes a very dim view to anything like this. Given the current administration, I'd be even more worried about attracting the attention of that agency.

[Arthur]

🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🏮 tHaTs IlleGal

🚦🚨🚨🚨🚨⚡

[capitalpaintball]

I used a Smart Parts All American and a "silencer" for airsoft. Someone on here was selling the tube and threaded end caps(dont ask me who,all info was lost in the crash). I drilled the caps for the barrel tip. the front has an o-ring glued inside so ti doesn't scratch the barrel, the back of the cap has a plastic sleeve glued in and teflon screws to tighten it to the barrel.
the outer tube threads off if you need to clean the barrel with water.

[ReconSWS]

Mmmmmmm that is sweet!

[gabe]

I think technically as long as the "rain cover" cannot conceivably be used on a firearm you're in the clear. Like it would have to be built in a non-detachable way or in such a way where it would be too flimsy to take the blast of a real firearm round.

Lots of airgun "moderators" or "lead traps" out there in threadings that are just not quite standard to firearms like 1/2-36. I don't think the ATF is looking real hard at airgun moderators when they've got a bunch of "solvent trap" type suppressor kits on ebay to regulate and track.

[ReconSWS]

If you like octagonal vertical-asymmetric cans then I can 3d print ya one in a couple weeks if you gimme your barrel dims, preview : https://i.imgur.com/D9uhOTT.jpg?1

[Chuck E Ducky]

I got like 6 different CCI barrels I can measure for you. I will post in your thread tomorrow.

[nobbie333]

With the all American freak tip it is easy to cover this https://iisports.com/products/tac-5-...12428634521661 to work just need some longer set screws and a little bit electric tape
for the foam around the barrel I chose a washable air filter that I cut to fit

[DocsMachine]

As noted above, guys, be careful. Technically making a suppressor for a paintball gun is illegal- the ATF does NOT differentiate an airgun suppressor from a firearm suppressor. They consider the object itself to be controlled/illegal.

Note that any commercial pellet-gun or air-rifle suppressor/moderator is permanently attached to the gun. The ATF considers it okay if it's permanently attached to an airgun, but it's NOT okay if it's removable.

And bore size, construction, materials used, thread sizes, etc. don't matter. Basically, as far as the ATF is concerned, if you can hand hold the suppressor over the barrel of a .22, and it quiets the shot even by just one decibel, even if the thing is destroyed by the shot, it's an illegal suppressor.

Now, on the other hand, the ATF doesn't have enough agents to troll paintball fields for violators, and is somewhat unlikely to try and prosecute most cases- like Capital's Bushhamster up there. You take that to court, and the defense is going to show that it's match-anodized to a paintball gun, threaded to fit a paintball barrel, bored to accept paintballs, etc. and the ATF would lose the case.

BUT... if you're pulled over by some jerk of a cop and he sees it sticking out of your gearbag, or if the cops are called to your field to deal with some drunk guy or to settle a fistfight, or some similar chance encounter, he or she could easily charge you with possession, and even if you win the case, it's going to cost you many thousands in legal fees.

Making Concealors is, after all, what got BOA raided by the ATF and shut down.

Not gonna say "don't do it", but I will say "be careful". I'm personally never going to make one, because I don't want them raiding my place, hauling off all my computers and machines, and shooting my dog. (Or cat, in this case. )

Doc.

[gabe]

From a strictly legal standpoint the cops can't actually enforce ATF rules like NFA items and the like. The maximum extent a police officer is allowed to question you about an NFA type item like a suppressor is to ask you to show documentation for legal ownership and even then you have 24 hours to provide such proof. That is more than enough time to have a conversation with the CLEO (Chief law enforcement officer in your area) and explain to them that it is not a controlled item being that it is not a suppressor for a firearm nor can it be in any way adapted to work on a firearm (assuming you designed it in such a way as to not be able to be used on a firearm). Silencerco did this with a muzzleloader not too long ago where they built a suppressor that was integrally attached to a muzzleloader and being that a muzzleloader is not by definition a firearm it was a legal suppressed muzzleloader that anyone (and literally anyone over 18 including felons). It didn't sell well because the tactical crowd generally doesn't go in for muzzeloaders and was discontinued but it proved a point. Obviously fixed barrel paintball gun with an integral suppressor is a VERY safe bet that it could not be repurposed on a firearm.

The point about being able to hold a "suppressor" up to a firearm and fire it even just once and it be defined as a suppressor is not a good argument. You can hold an empty coke can up to a 22 and quiet the thing but nobody is getting raided for selling soda. Same thing with mufflers. You can very easily buy a lawn mower muffler and it's not regulated but makes a terrific suppressor if you were to hold it loosely around a rifle's muzzle. It has to be physically attachable to a firearm to be deemed a suppressor. If you were to build one onto a freak front for example I don't think you're in any legal danger as it is externally threaded, not internally and no firearms use such threading. In any case the onus would be on the ATF to prove that it could be adapted to work on a firearm without any special tools other than wrenches/screw drivers.

How many TASO suppressors are out there? Did they get shut down for making them?

Sorry to go on such a long rant about paintball suppressors but this comes up every time they are discussed and it's exhausting hearing people fret about the ATF who frankly has far bigger fish to fry than some goons gluing PVC pipe on their paintball guns. There's thousands of different non-firearm suppressors on pellet guns, airsoft guns, ect and they are all legally and commercially available online. BOA's issue was during a very specific time in gun history when the ATF had a large amount of funding, not much better to do, the Clinton administration had passed lots of gun control laws, and there weren't nearly as many guns and specifically NFA items in circulation. Fast forward 30 years and there are over 10x as many guns out there, NFA items are commonplace among gun owners, and the ATF is overworked just processing NFA applications. Better yet, knowledge about how the NFA works and how suppressors are regulated is far more common now among law enforcement then it was in the 90's so you are more than likely to be left alone. I have several suppressors that are legally owned with NFA tax stamps and not once, not ever have I been asked about them either at public ranges, public lands, or even during a traffic stop coming home from the range. I haven't even been asked to show my tax stamp, it's just a non-issue for most everyone even if it's a firearm suppressor and paintball/airsoft suppressors are even less of a concern legally.

[DocsMachine]

The point about being able to hold a "suppressor" up to a firearm and fire it even just once and it be defined as a suppressor is not a good argument.

-That assumes logic and reason from a bureau that gets to write their own laws, and literally treats a lot of this is "because we said so".

You can hold an empty coke can up to a 22 and quiet the thing but nobody is getting raided for selling soda.

-True. But there is precedence. Over on WARPIG many years ago- it may have been Bill himself- wrote to the ATF about using pipe insulation as a suppressor. Off the shelf Home Depot pipe insulation. Cut about a foot off, slide the end over your barrel, works pretty well for paintball.

The ATF said that it's fine for a paintball gun, but specifically noted that if you were to slide it over a firearm barrel, that counted as "manufacturing" a suppressor, and was thus illegal.

It has to be physically attachable to a firearm to be deemed a suppressor.

-Nope. It's intent. Years ago, one company was raided and shut down because they were making plastic collars that screwed 2-liter soda bottles to a rifle barrel. They, personally, never assembled one, they had no firearms on the property when they were raided, but they were still charged with manufacturing because the device was intended to assemble one.

And "intent" is one of those grey areas. The ATF will try to prove in court that you intended to assemble such a thing- and to a typical jury, the simple fact that you A, owned the suppressor, and B owned a firearm, is enough.

I fully admit it's quite a reach, and for 99.9% of us, it won't ever be an issue. But the fact is a separate, non-fixed, un-serial-numbered suppressor is still illegal. The ATf isn't going to waste too much time going after the kid at the paintball field with one, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "okay". As I said, it's something to be very careful with.

How many TASO suppressors are out there? Did they get shut down for making them?

-Yes, as a matter of fact. They were, according to rumor, served with a 'cease and desist', and voluntarily stopped making and selling them. Barrels of America was raided by the ATF, who confiscated materials, finished product, computers, paperwork, machines and other equipment. Supposedly cost them well north of $100K to fight and win, but by the time they did, they were basically out of business. The confiscated inventory and materials had been destroyed.

Sorry to go on such a long rant about paintball suppressors but this comes up every time they are discussed and it's exhausting hearing people fret about the ATF who frankly has far bigger fish to fry than some goons gluing PVC pipe on their paintball guns.

-Very true. But on the flip side, I see players occasionally getting pretty blase` about them- 3D printing and selling them, advertising them for sale, etc.- and I really don't want to see someone "made an example of".

Personally, I would LOVE to see the ATF issue a ruling- that is, making it official- that suppressors intended for air guns are not subject to the law. I have a few ideas I'd love to try to make one for myself, and I've be more than happy to start manufacturing some high-quality ones.

But until it's officially okay, there's no goddam way I'll make one. I don't want to have the feds swoop in, take all my stuff and shoot my cat.

Doc.

[gabe]

On the contrary they have never shot a cat, the ATF seems to be primarily dog people.

[DocsMachine]

I don't have a dog, I'm sure they'd find a reason.

There's thousands of different non-firearm suppressors on pellet guns, airsoft guns, ect and they are all legally and commercially available online.

-I wanted to clarify this: Yes, this is true, but the issue here is that those still aren't legal.

It's like pot. Plenty of places have legalized it, and various administrations have basically declined to prosecute, but at a federal level, it's still illegal.

The airgun silencers are kind of the same thing- the ATF isn't raiding those companies simply because they are, after all, intended for airguns, and they have bigger fish to fry with their limited budget, but the fact is, the ATF still has not issued any kind of official decree making "air gun only" silencers legal. The airgun sellers are only still selling them because no one's jumped down their throats yet.

Yes, you are vanishingly unlikely to get prosecuted for it, I just reply to things like this to tell people not to be too blase` about it. Hopefully before too long they will, in fact, issue some kind of decree officially okaying airgun 'moderators', but until then, we kind of need to be careful.

Doc.

[gabe]

I'd like to point out that in terms of how the ATF works it's rarely, almost never, the case that they come out and say "such and such a thing is legal". They will absolutely rule on what is not legal but they generally stay silent on things that are legal. Laws just simply work in this way, they provide boundaries but they do not define what is within those boundaries.

The arm braces are a good example where they originally did give the OK in an opinion letter to AR15 braces specifically mounted to buffer tubes but did not say anything further. Then we have an explosion of arm braces being mounted to every conceivable firearm, specifically those that are not AR15's and use a buffer tube to attach them. The ATF then later came out with an opinion letter that they saw all the non-buffer tube mounted braces as not legal and then reversed course later and said that really it's the intent of the user as to whether the firearm was actually being used in a manner that would make it an illegal SBR or just a braced pistol.

In other words the ATF rarely even knows what's going on and doesn't do a great job keeping up with firearm technology. They will always define the legal parameters around an item but rarely fill in the middle unless someone specifically writes them and they issue an opinion letter. Often it's better to leave sleeping dogs lie as once they set a precedent that airgun silencers are illegal then you can't really go back. Similar to how many people bemoaned Black Aces Tactical writing the ATF on their shotgun shoulder braces which invited further scrutiny. As long as paintball silencers play in that grey middle ground that the ATF hasn't specifically ruled on then we are fairly safe in a legal space.

I can understand if a person or manufacturer doesn't want to hang themselves out there like that but that sentiment in and of itself doesn't constitute it being patently illegal to make an airgun suppressor.

[Hp_lovecraft]

You can buy airguns at walmart, right now, with suppressors on them, as well as most large retailers, from companies like Crosman, etc.
The ATF position is that they are 100% legal for any type of airgun, as long as it can not be readily applied to a firearm. Says right on the ATF website.

Granted, "readily" is the magic ATF grey-area. If you read through the ATF, they have rejected some semi-permanent paintball silencers. Someone submitted a unibody phantom, with a built-in supressor, but the ATF felt that the unibody itself could be readily adapted to a firearm, and it was rejected.

However, someone else submitted a tube of fiberglass insulation, and it was accepted. There was a website here a few years ago with the actual letter from the ATF. They took generic fiberglass insulation, with an 1" internal diameter, and plopped it onto a barrel..... totally unmodifed, and it worked great. The ATF felt that it was barely strong enough for an airgun, and would be blown apart by a real firearm and was allowed.

I wish I could find that website.