Underrated gear.

[Tinybear]

What you think was/is under rated/under appreciated by the industry?

I’d vote the Tippmann Crossover XVR. It’s a solid shooter with a lot to offer even now. Wish they had offered it a bit cheaper as a mech only model.

I think the Pinokio Speed hoppers could be on the list. They were underrated originally too(glad to see them back). Super light, well balanced, same capacity as a rotor, simple to use/clean, fast enuff to keep up with any legal modes (had one on my last ULE mag with rt on/off and SHP reg and it fed that beast without a hiccup), inexpensive, and long batt life. I also much prefer loaders that run 9v like most guns use, so you only need one type battery in your gear bag.

[Sottyman]

To date myself a tad, JAM bolts. I ran them exclusively in my cockers, and stupidly sold the handful I had left when I stopped playing years ago. Let me rip on them all day with my old revi and never had a chop that I can remember.

[Magmoormaster]

#1 Trilogy Autocockers. One of the most grossly underrated guns of all time. I'd still take a stock trilly over most any other cocker ever made.
#2 JT Impulse. Not my favorite gun by any means, but it boggles my mind that they didn't sell better.
#3 Toxic Toys Tribal. Touted as being unreliable, and I don't know why. Maybe I got a rare diamond, but I did very little maintenance to it and it never failed me.

[glaman5266]

100% agreed on the Trilogy line. Even the Sport models are good IMO. With a good barrel they just keep on working. And they were (still are? I dunno) stupid cheap on the used market. They are a rock solid, idiot-proof cocker.

[Sottyman]

I was a Trilogy hater until I reluctantly bought one. Definitely a great way to get people to shoot a cocker with zero worry of having to time and tinker and all that. I liked to tinker more so I went back over to "regular" cockers, but can appreciate a Trilogy for sure!

[Brokeass_baller]

Completely agree with Trilogy's being underrated. I love those guns. Unfortunately, people are starting to realize just how nice they are, and the price of them is reflecting that.

[glaman5266]

Aside from the Trilogy line mentioned above... I’m not sure if these were underrated, but I always liked the 32 Degrees one piece barrels. They aren’t the best barrel, but what you got for what you paid was a fantastic value. I really liked the Night Stick specifically.

[Trbo323]

You should make an over rated gear thread as well

1) azodin blitz, the base model. Around $160 it has a programmable e-frame, eyes, regulator, adjustable double trigger, clamping feedneck and on/off asa and cocker barrel. You can spend an easy $400 on a tippman 98 trying to get all those things (can't get the eyes with standard aftermarket parts)

2) halo tsa Lcd hopper. Perfect for open class pump. It's an agitator, sound activated with adjustable settings all the way around. The arms actually change direction depending on which way the hopper is leaning to make sure it is always pushing paint up to the feedneck. Works with halo speed feeds

3) Vanguard creed. Made in Europe in 2011, 2012, outclasses the PE poppets in the same time frame to a decent degree. The board alone is great, full color lcd that can be used in bright sunlight, extremely user friendly and programmable. Get this though, the company went out of business in 2012 but you can still replace the poppet seal and the schrader valve in the lpr. How? The poppet seal is an o ring. The poppet unscrews and you simply replace it. The schrader valve in the lpr is from a bike or car tire so you can get them for about 25 cents. Battery crap out? It's a 3.7 volt drone battery, as long as you can solder the old harness on a new battery you are set.

4) valken soft goods. Everything I have gotten from them has been extremely well made and has held up great. I got my pod pack in 2015 and I can't find a stitch out of place today

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[Ecapnation]

Vanguard failed because for all the smart in that gun they had piss poor quality control.... I was a factory tech. Guns were being shipped not deburred, with aluminium swarf still in air passages. And some internal aluminum parts being shipped raw.

It was a decent gun buy could of been better if run by anyone else

[spikeball]

I'm with you on the Valken soft goods. My main large capacity pack is a valken and it's taken a beating, and stretching, and still holds up great.

[Siress]

"Guns were being shipped not deburred, with aluminium swarf still in air passages. And some internal aluminum parts being shipped raw." Ecapnation

Good god.

[Siress]

Obvious answer is the PVI Shocker. They were robbed, though, so I should probably omit them.

The Renegade knee/shin pads were pretty underrated imo. I'd still pay top dollar for those if I could find them. I was rocking 300+lb when I was using them and playing exclusively as a front man. They were the only thing that would stay on my knees when sliding - thanks to the ankle strap being in just the right location to provide mechanical support. Everything else I've ever tried slid by an amount equal to the height offset of the ankle strap or more.

Kurt's Predator Morlock board... he seems to have designed a bored that will work for any electronic gun ever made with most every firing mode you'd ever want. It even had a tournament lock. How/why that board isn't being produced and used in everything today is beyond me.

[Arthur]

100rd pods + AK mag pouches are just right. A little less firepower but lighter and tighter on the rig. Throw a pistol in there, why not.

[Tinybear]

I too prefer running 100rnd pods. I don’t run a vest just an old school rental special two pod pouch on my belt.

I tend to play a lot of pump. And I like my sport shots. So the 100 round pod works with the sport shot much better than the standard 140 pods.

[Arthur]

Dig it, brother.

I run one-hundos across everything I shoot, which varies from electro-mech-to-pump. Honestly running a two-pod belt sounds kinda nice, might try that out too.

[Brokeass_baller]

1. Completely agree that Trilogy's were underrated. Excellent shooters and nearly trouble-free. Had they come out a few years earlier, I think they could've saved WGP.

2. By today's standards, Revolutions. These workhorses kept up with Angels and Shockers back in the day, but nowadays people fear they won't keep up with their Emeks and eNMEy's. Makes me roll my eyes.

3. Blowback markers. I don't know when their reputation became so poor, but it must've been before I started playing (1998). Even when Spyders we're relevant, I remember people trash talking them. Even when a good upgraded Tippmann 98 was considered low-mid range, people trash talked them. And nowadays with everybody's spoiled asses and their new mech-lectros, they act like blowbacks are just untouchable and kick like mules, and you can never be competitive with one. Bull crap. I had a Havoc spyder clone that I gave to somebody that was a fantastic little gun. Great trigger pull, no noticable recoil, and it shot well all day when I used it. My 98C still has one of the best trigger pulls for any mech I've shot. Short, light, crisp break. And I've never noticed any real kick from the thing. Small vibration from the action, but not kick. No barrel rise.

[Dusty Bottoms]

From the Mag perspective, I’d say the old Automag Classic valve. On HPA, with a Lvl10 bolt, people really forget how well these things work and how simple they are to maintain. A lot of guys act like anything less than an X-valve is a waste, and I just don’t understand it unless weight is your sole major concern. Throw a ULE centerfeed body with a classic valve setup and you have a fantastic, very low maintenance mech.

[Brokeass_baller]

I haven't had to re-tune mine in ages.

While we're talking about underrated, I'm going to mention Level 7. I have a lvl 7 foamie I've run for years, and it really doesn't chop. People act like you need the lvl 10 or your gun is going to be a blender. I've found that most chopping issues are caused by the nubbins, not the bolt.

[gabe]

I know you're a classic RT guy but I could never get my RT or my classic back bottle mag to run without becoming blenders. Foamie bolts were no help at all. Only thing I didn't try was level 10 but I think the real culprit is the twist lock barrels having such a huge bore for today's paint. Lots of ball stack clipping with level 7 bolt speeds causing breaks.

[MrBarraclough]

My Level 7 classic valve runs fine and hasn't chopped paint since I installed a Doc's adapter and started using a force fed hopper. I think Gabe is correct that the issue is ball stack clipping caused by the old twistlocks having huge bores at the breech compared to today's paint sizes. That and the non-adjustable plastic nubbins.

[Dusty Bottoms]

There's probably an easier way to respond to post comments, but I'll just do it this way.

Siress- "Lvl10... low maintenance... haha Not in my experience with 3 or more guns. First time they got left in the gear bag for a year the lvl10 would need tuning again."

I did wonder if I should say Lvl7 or Lvl10 bolt. I only have one mag setup with a Lvl7 bolt, and I will say it's dirt simple to do, but since alot of guys have problems with smaller paint I decided not to. I have four mags with Lvl 10 bolts currently and have probably had 15-20 others. I've only had a couple that were a pain to setup right, but I've always never bothered using shims and always use gold springs. I still think the benefits offset the setup process, especially if you have small paint. I rotate my markers regularly for play days, so none of them sit as long as a year unused. Sometimes I just add oil in the asa and dry fire them periodically.

Brokeass_baller- "While we're talking about underrated, I'm going to mention Level 7. I have a lvl 7 foamie I've run for years, and it really doesn't chop. People act like you need the lvl 10 or your gun is going to be a blender. I've found that most chopping issues are caused by the nubbins, not the bolt."

I'd agree, even though I primarily use Lvl10 bolts on my mags. I know a few guys on FB groups and Automag Org who still use Lvl7 bolts on both Classic valve and RT valve mags with no real problems, so I think alot of it is things like paint size and quality, nubbins or detents, what loader your using, and if you have a parabolic pf plug on a powerfeed body.

Gabe- "I know you're a classic RT guy but I could never get my RT or my classic back bottle mag to run without becoming blenders. Foamie bolts were no help at all. Only thing I didn't try was level 10 but I think the real culprit is the twist lock barrels having such a huge bore for today's paint. Lots of ball stack clipping with level 7 bolt speeds causing breaks."

There is alot of different factors at play. I have primarily used Lvl10 bolts on my mags, and all I can say is that it's extremely rare for me to break a ball whether using twistlock or cocker threaded barrels with a Doc's adapter. However, last time I played in March I tested one of my RT Classics with a Lvl7 bolt, twistlock barrel, and a Rotor with a Ninja SHP bottle just to see how it would do. That baby RT'ed effortlessly, and I ripped off burst of 3-5 balls, and long strings of balls, without breaking a single one until the very last ball chopped! I was pretty blown away. I think if I used a Doc's barrel adapter with it's better Spyder detent, and kept the Rotor fed so the last few balls weren't feeding erratically, then that would do the same thing just as reliably without chopping. The Lvl7 botls do 'rt' much easier than the Lvl10 bolts do in my experience, so that would be neat to take advantage of. Field paint in middle TN always seems to be larger than what guys on the coast or up north get. Probably because of our greater heat and humidity. I am a diehard AGD guy, but part of that is because I've never had problems with them chopping paint. If I had played with them in the 90's before most of the improvements were invented, I might have had a different opinion on them.

[Siress]

Dusty Bottoms Yeah, the comment thing is odd. I only ever used shims. I'm not sure this gold spring you mentioned was around in those days. It sounds like it might resolve the issues I faced. Was this a lighter bolt return spring or something else entirely?

[Brokeass_baller]

Siress the gold spring is the lightest bolt spring.

[Siress]

Got it. I've long forgotten the AGD jargon.

[XEMON]

May I add the 9v revy?It literally never stop 😅

It only has one battery, no eye or board to fail ...

[Brokeass_baller]

That sounds like it would get real annoying real quick.

[XEMON]

Its not bad ... just turn it on at the beginning of the game, and turn if off at the end ...

[MrBarraclough]

That would have be extremely early then. I have a fairly early one, probably from late 1995 or early/mid 1996, and it has eyes.

Tough little bastard, too. Much to my delight, after sitting in my gear bag for 20 years, all I had to do was throw a fresh 9V in it last year and it started right up just like I had last used it the day before.

[coyote]

Unique packs.

The company has been out of business for 15 ish years. I still have 2 that get use.

Modern packs fall short on material is and build quality.