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**Arthur** · 10-17-2021, 06:17 PM

OP how many times has this horse been beaten to death on FB and you have to bring it here. lol

The debate is moot because its really a matter of what the event is. Most MFOG's allow them with no field reloads. Works great and doesn't negatively affect the game. Some argue it enhances it (covering fire, push, etc.). I attend other events that don't allow box mags, that's cool too.

I've had a Dye box for I dunno how many years and they're tons of fun during open class play. That's why I even have one.

**Chuck E Ducky** · 10-17-2021, 06:25 PM

I don’t get the difference between a Box Rotor and a powered Hopper and couldn’t care less honestly. I think the fact they are allowed in MFO games destroys the spirit that makes playing limited paint play fun. At the same time Magfed players could argue it’s not a limited paint format. I really don’t care either way. Only point I see owning a Box Rotor is turning a Dam into a bottom fed oversized speedball marker. Using one in a MFO game feels like clubbing seals to me. They are in high demand apparently.

I stopped trying to understand MFO game rule logic. I just look at the rules and decide if I want to play it.

**ATBen** · 10-17-2021, 06:49 PM

Here's the attention you ordered...

Magwell = magfed

**glaman5266** · 10-17-2021, 07:18 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight (I don't play magfed), but I feel somewhat compelled to post anyway.

Originally posted by vijil View Post

Yeah, it totally depends on the goal.

Is the goal a LARP game based on modern warfare? Everyone would need to sit back not shooting each other, and occasionally call in fire support. Yawn. Who cares what you're shooting.

Is the goal a Hollywood Vietnam style squad warfare with "heavy" guys carrying mounted weapons that they don't need to mount because they're so badass? Then 4 magfed 30 round players for every boxmag/hopper/predator can make sense (but I've noticed nobody ever places such common sense restrictions).

Is the goal just a form of limited paint? Then boxmags should be banned and a clear definition developed. "max 30 rounds per load, marker must not shoot when magazine is not attached, any alternative setups like stick feed or pump shotguns may be allowed if they are judged to have less than or equal firepower than a regular magfed, with decisions being made on a case by case basis"

I agree. I think it really depends on the game/scenario/goal. And sometimes it really can boil down to a case-by-case basis.

I don't feel that there needs to be any "official" way to play magfed. Kind of seems like stock class to me in that there are indeed very specific rules to follow when playing "true" oldschool stock class. But it's been generally simplified to mean a horizontal feed tube w/o springs, manual operation and run on a 12g. And that simplification has been for the better. It's like saying a Phantom isn't stock class. While a Phantom technically isn't stock class according to the original rules, why the heck would people nitpick that? They don't. It's not productive & just causes problems. Why nitpick within the format when the game rules can dictate what's allowed for that day/event? Why should a specific list of magfed rules really exist? Just run it on a game-by-game basis.

Originally posted by Arthur View Post

OP how many times has this horse been beaten to death on FB and you have to bring it here. lol

The debate is moot because its really a matter of what the event is. Most MFOG's allow them with no field reloads. Works great and doesn't negatively affect the game. Some argue it enhances it (covering fire, push, etc.). I attend other events that don't allow box mags, that's cool too.

I've had a Dye box for I dunno how many years and they're tons of fun during open class play. That's why I even have one.

Now this goes with what I was saying above. I can totally see using a box Rotor or whatever for specific cases and/or if there are limitations put in place to even things up. Ultimately, it should depend on the game/format.

And lastly, I chuckled at the OP's picture. I don't think one could even get a Rotor's worth of paint off a 13/3K. Doesn't make any sense to run it that way. Also, one of the points to playing a limited paint format (or even just pump) is to lighten your gear load. People who run Rotors, or even 200rd grav feeds, on pumps just baffle me. WHY? lol

**Trbo323** · 10-17-2021, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by ATBen View Post

Here's the attention you ordered...

Magwell = magfed

Then you have to define what a magwell is

If I flip my marker upside down I insert my "magazine" (aka, hopper) into the marker, through the "magwell" (aka, feedneck) that then makes my magazine a top loading box mag when I flip it back upright

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**Stilgar** · 10-17-2021, 08:38 PM

Technically a magazine is anything that holds ammo...

Magfed is defined by its exceptions rather than its rule.

Play for fun.
Play by the rules the even organization has listed. If you don't like it, then move on to another game you do like and have fun.

**Arthur** · 10-17-2021, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Stilgar View Post

Technically a magazine is anything that holds ammo...

Magfed is defined by its exceptions rather than its rule.

Play for fun.
Play by the rules the even organization has listed. If you don't like it, then move on to another game you do like and have fun.

... A 'clip' holds bullets and it's not a magazine.

**ATBen** · 10-18-2021, 12:47 AM

I do like magfed for its cool props. When I got tired of beating up on fat dad's and rental parties I wanted to play something closer to the old scenario games I grew up playing. Magfed seemed to fit. I mean with the exception of a few furries, they even dressed the milsim part. I thought if I picked up tmc I'd be good to go, BOY was I wrong.

Turns out that around me, they only played different versions of fetch the prop, hold the prop, or fight over the prop. And I was something called a "tourist" who just played like a "shootyball boy."

Now I just play whatever games interest me regardless of what "genre" it may be. There's no shortage of games or producers within 4 hours of me. But my favorite games since playing regularly again have been "magfed/milsim" ones, with loose open play rules (limited box mags, tac caps, 50 rnd pumps, feed tube etc) and heavy themes.

**vijil** · 10-18-2021, 02:02 AM

"they only played different versions of fetch the prop, hold the prop, or fight over the prop"

To be fair, that's more variety than 90% of the paintball world has ever experienced put together.

**coyote** · 10-18-2021, 03:04 AM

By definition a hopper is a magazine.

**Fubarius** · 10-18-2021, 11:27 PM

Box mags don't actually exist in my opinion. They're Box Hoppers, or Bottom Mounted Hoppers. But that's because I think of things in a more technical and tactical way. A 10 round magazine and a 10 round tube from a tactical aspect are identical. Shoot 10 shots, replace. For a Box hopper and a top mounted hopper, shoot 200 shots, dump in more. Tactically the same, with minor differences and performance tradeoffs. To me saying a 200 round dump reloaded Box hopper is the same as a 10 (or 20, or 30) round magazine is nonsense. Not even in the same category. And my first thought is that the people who argue for the inclusion are looking for an unfair advantage. As if they're saying "I want the tactical advantages of a bulk hopper, but I don't want everyone to have it". Seems like fairly blatant power fantasy.

But to other players, it's not about the technical aspects or tactical effectiveness, it's about aesthetics. How it looks. How it makes them feel. The general "vibe" of the thing. Anything "speedball" isn't "magfed", simple as that. On another debate on a different forum I has some magfed player post paragraph after paragraph that boiled down to a Box Hopper is 100% magfed because it feeds through a mag well. I post a picture of my full auto AT85 with a hopper adaptor magazine...

...and while the other technical and tactical minded players were like "yep, same as a box mag", the magfed guy I was debating had only one thought and I quote directly...

"Why would anyone use something so ugly?"

Because as stated it wasn't about the technical design, or the tactical capabilities, to him is was 100% about the look, the feel, the aesthetic. My AT85 didn't look like it was pretending to be a military rifle (it has a few aspects, but other parts are blatantly disregarding the aesthetic), so it was ugly. It was wrong.

Interestingly enough, I got the most use out of the above setup on a local airball field against ramping electros. The owner/refs new I wouldn't intentionally light up the new players with the full auto, and that it's rate of fire was quite similar to the tournament ramping speeds of the day.

Now obviously I'm not embracing the speedball aesthetic either, but an interesting difference between the two styles. Speedball is a bit more results focused. Someone wins, but wins with the wrong style, well they still won and have to be respected. It seems a lot of the magfed guys (and airsofters) would rather lose as long as they lost "correctly", than win "incorrectly".

**djeclypse** · 10-19-2021, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by Toestr View Post

I've never understood why the organizers demand the guns look realistic. They don't have any kind of uniform requirement. You can show up in full tourney gear so long as you have a magfed gun they deem realistic.

Actually I have never had an issue with them requiring a realistic look. I've used my 98 with a PZ98 mag adapter, my Phantom with a MAK mag adapter and also used the same MAK with a hopper feedneck adapter into my Axe Pro in a specially modded EMC kit. Both the PZ98 and MAK take tippmann tipx mags, either the Tru Feeds or Zetas, so I have a bunch. Running the Phantom with the MAK and my TiPx as a secondary is a fun, lightweight almost dual pistol setup.

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**vijil** · 10-19-2021, 03:57 AM

Of course there's what mostly passes for magfed, and then there's what I wish was magfed.

I wish magfed wasn't so tied to milsim. I wish I could have a bright blue spacegun that runs 20 round mags. I wish I could use it in a speedball tournament where everyone else used magfed too, and I wish that style had become dominant rather than what speedball became.

Alas, that particular combo doesn't exist. Closest you can get in real life is stickfed pumps, but that's a niche within a niche.

**wunderbarsafari** · 10-19-2021, 07:20 AM

If belt feed and mechanical drum magazines don’t work well for paintball then a hopper is your only option to have “machine guns” in your magfed game.

I’ve been out of the infantry for 12 years but none of our machine guns ate from an electric box.

**The Inflicted** · 10-19-2021, 01:47 PM

What really grinds my gears is when they exclude stuff like a KP2 for not having a "magazine".

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Are box mags REALLY magfed? I disagree

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