walkie talkies

[rawbutter]

I'm thinking about getting some walkie talkies.

My woodsball field is relatively small, maybe a hundred yards from end to end. When we are starting games, however, the teams have to shout to be heard. Often times this means my throat is sore the next day.

I'd like to get some walkie talkies to leave at the bases to make this all easier, but I'm not sure what to get. The last time i bought a cheap pair, they could barely transmit over 100 yards in a field, let alone through the woods. That was years ago, though. Has the base quality gone up since then?

I guess this all comes down to the classic cost/effectiveness spectrum. Obviously I could spend a few hundred dollars on some professional quality ones that can transmit for miles, but that's overkill in my situation. There's got to be some middle of the road option.

Oh... And cell phones won't work. The field is in a weird dead zone that drops calls and kills battery charge (because your phone keeps pinging for a signal that isn't there). We need something different.

[rawbutter]

This is what I'm thinking about. Comes with a stand thing for easy recharging. 1 mile rang. Bright color so it doesn't get lost if someone drops it in the woods.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08Q892M5J/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?pd_rd_i=B08Q892M5J&pd_rd_w=xyqnY&pf_rd_p=54ed5474-54a8-4c7f-a88a-45f748d18166&pd_rd_wg=Vxn4K&pf_rd_r=QYBZ87EFXT89Q8C4G2AZ&pd_rd_r=63fb16dd-b9ae-40e4-9c73-215ecf3e4d23&s=electronics&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyOTdOWkZJQVRaQlg1JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTAxNjA0MjBGRkhUQlhWSDYwTyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzA2OTA0M0NOQk5UQUpHQUUzMSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

[pintbuster]

the ones you linked will be the same power as the ones that didn't work for you before.
The Baofeng UV-5R are very popular and cheap, however may not be legal without the proper license to transmit on certain channels.

[MrBarraclough]

Technically, the UV-5R and others like it are not legal to transmit with at all without an amateur radio license, even when tuned to the frequency of one of the licensed-by-type channels such as the FRS channels. Though admittedly, when transmitting within the power limitations of channels, those radios are indistinguishable from actual licensed-by-type radios to any listener.

[rawbutter]

How hard is it to get a license? Are we talking fishing license easy?

Do I need a license for each radio? Or can I run a bunch at the same time?

[Chuck E Ducky]

I run the Baofeng LEO got bigger problems then my paintball chatter the few times I use it. I do what I want…

[pintbuster]

I run the Baofeng LEO got bigger problems then my paintball chatter the few times I use it. I do what I want…

Now you see why they are so popular....

[Ecapnation]

Honestly my opinion with radios is there more trouble than it's worth just another thing to carry and get lost.

Couple of my more tactical driven teammates, I use that very sarcastically, insisted that we buy these high-end radios a bunch of years ago so they could better plan their strategies while on the field. Yeah that didn't work at all so now it just sits in my workshop.

[rawbutter]

Yeah, I have no fantasies about using the radios on the field to coordinate our moves. I have a hard enough time remembering to talk to my teammates even when they're 20 feet away. If I have to go through the effort of pushing a button and speaking into a mic, forget about it.

The plan is to just leave the radios at the starting base locations so the teams can talk to each other easily before the match. Then someone will say "Ready, set, go" into the thing and probably toss it on the ground when they take off running. If I get something yellow or bright blue, hopefully they won't get lost in the leaves.

[Chuck E Ducky]

They have really good range. We mainly use them for big games like ION so we can find other players. But they work way farther then 100yards. I got mine on some blow out Black Friday deal. But as long as your not using them to harass local PD on restricted channels (you have to program in, but also have to be in range) nobody is going to bother you. For the general purpose we use them for nobody is going to be like “excuse me Sr let me see your HAM radio license.” And “why you are at it is that a Whoosh tip on your paintball marker?” Nope they are more worried about the next POS that is pulling illegal pistols out of there Fanny pack and taking pop shots at newborns. I think us Hillbilly Paintball Hippies are low on the list of Criminals.

They do get lost often I have found a bunch on the field don’t get the camo color one. If you are just using them to start and end games/ and the occasional Big game. They fit there purpose. Amazon has them for like $80 each they have decent battery life and are cheap enough you lose one your not going to lose sleep over it.

[MrBarraclough]

They have really good range because their output power is usually orders of magnitude greater than licensed-by-type walkie talkies.

Your local PD does not have the expertise to enforce radio frequency regulations even if they wanted to, which they don't anyway. The FCC most certainly does, and their enforcement bureau absolutely loves to foxhunt pirate transmissions. But their field agents aren't on patrol; they come out in response to complaints. Transient uses such as at big games aren't likely to draw anyone's attention, unless there has already been a persistent problem at the field hosting it. What gets people in trouble is repeated use that annoys local licensed users such as hams or businesses that have licensed part of the business spectrum in that area. So it's not screwing with the PD that is going to get someone caught, it is transmitting on the input frequency of the local ham repeater or the frequency licensed to a nearby furniture warehouse for dispatching their delivery trucks. If someone is transmitting on one of the FRS channel frequencies with a UV-5R, the transmission power is the only detectable difference. And if they're savvy enough to program it to use lower output power on those frequencies, they're entirely indistinguishable.

Of course, one could always just get an amateur radio license. The test for a technician class license is not difficult, it's cheap to take, there are free study materials online, and Morse Code is no longer a requirement.

[Ecapnation]

Actually I take it back I have used the walkie-talkie that I have in recent games however more acting as a psyop and doing counterintelligence sort of things

[OpusX]

As a ham I should say "Something something...illegal...license...blahblah". In reality Boafengs are the best practical choice. If they cared about people doing unlicensed GMRS things bubble pack radios wouldnt exist.

Dont mess with the ham folk, or local business and youll be fine.

[MrBarraclough]

I feel the same way. Misuse of cheap programmable radios somewhat annoys me on principle as a ham, especially since getting a technician class license is so cheap and easy. But people blasting out 5 to 8 Watts on an FRS or GMRS frequency while otherwise using that service as intended is kind of hard to get that worked up about, especially when bubble pack piracy has been so normalized for decades now. If I had the chance to set enforcement priorities for the FCC, I'd put CBs with linear amplifiers much higher on the list than things like overpowered FRS transmissions.

[Cunha]

What model boafeng makes the most sense?

[OpusX]

The popular option is the UV5R series. For this, I'd pick one of them that doesnt have keypad inputs and just program them for GMRS to make it easy.

[MrBarraclough]

If we're talking about 100 yards of terrain that apparently doesn't completely block out shouting, have you tried whistles? We oftened used them when I played outlaw ball back in the day. All you have to communicate is a "Are you ready?," a "Ready" or "Not Ready" response, and a begin game signal. A handful of different short/long chirp signals could easily handle that. A Fox 40 lifeguard's whistle is plenty loud.

[Chuck E Ducky]

We use a pump up air horn to start/stop outlaw games.

[rawbutter]

We've tried to use whistles, but they're hard to blow with a mask on. And nowadays I'm not sure I want to have a bunch of guys putting the same thing in their mouths.

[Tarsun2]

ive used them a few times for woods ball in the past. it really helps to stay organized. (for us atleast).
and when we split up our group, we still leave them on the same channel. its kindda fun. we have the ear bud and built in microphone.

[BrickHaus]

When i was big in scenario, we all got the 40 dollar boefeng ham radios that allowed you to be on many channels.

Now its argued that you need a ham radio operators license to use these, but i know a lot of people who do use them without issue. Just use them at the event and shut them off.

They worked really well on an extremely hills 250 acer course we call home. Honestly if I were into comms. id be getting one of those.

[BrickHaus]

I think the model was the uv-5? Theres an updated version out now so the uv5 is cheap.

[MrBarraclough]

UV-5R, and its family of variants.

And yes, technically it is unlawful to transmit on those without an amateur radio license, regardless of the frequency or power output used. Any handheld UHF or VHF transmitter with a removable antenna or that is user programmable to transmit outside of factory programmed channels is going to require that the user be licensed. But transient use of them by unlicensed people is unlikely to be detected, and even less likely to be caught.

If you wanna go super pedantic, all radio spectrum is licensed. It's just that certain devices, such as off the shelf walkie talkies, are in a category known as licensed-by-type, in which the device's compliance with the type specifications fulfills the license requirement. Those specs are meant to lock down the device to prevent misuse, which is why they include a non-removable antenna, output power limits, and channelized frequencies only. Even within licensed by type, certain uses may require a separate license, but very few people even realize that. Anything that uses the GMRS channels is supposed to require a GMRS license to use those, which is disclosed in tiny print inside the packaging that no one reads.

[rawbutter]

I'd like to keep things above the board. My club plays on private land that isn't ours, so I try not to do anything that might give the owners any trouble, even if the possibility of that happening is remote.

So, how hard is it to get a license to use a Boafeng radio? A little Googling seems to indicate that it's not expensive, but I would need to take an exam. Has anyone here done this? Is the exam actually hard, or is it more of a make-sure-you-know-the-basics kind of thing like a driver's license exam?

[MrBarraclough]

Yeah, I have a technician class amateur radio license (that's the lowest class). It's not hard at all. I think it cost me something like $15 to take and there are plenty of free study materials online. Not any harder than getting a boater's license. The exam tests basic knowledge of some of the physics behind radio, some of the fundamentals of the electronics, and basics of operating procedures and restrictions. Because it is a license to build and modify your own radio as well as operate it, the FCC wants to make sure you know better than to electrocute yourself or give yourself an RF burn or unwittingly cause interference with other users. And on the operating side, the test is meant to ensure you understand what you are and are not allowed to do and what parts of the spectrum you're permitted to operate on.

You can find some free practice tests online. Some of the physics/tech stuff anyone with good reasoning skills who halfway remembers high school science class could answer correctly without studying. Other things like permitted frequency ranges you just have to memorize.

The really good news is that the FCC outsources the testing, often to amateur radio clubs, so chances are pretty good that your local ham club may offer the testing. My local club conducts tests every other month.

Confession: I almost never use my ham license. Occasionally I'll check into a net on my local emergency management agency repeater, but haven't done so in forever. I got the license mainly in preparation for a trip to Yellowstone in 2016. Cell coverage is practically non-existent outside of Mammoth, Old Faithful, and Canyon Village. The rangers use VHF frequencies that are publicly known, though restricted to government use. I carried a UV-5R preprogrammed with the frequencies of the rangers' repeaters with me in case of emergencies while out hiking. My wife has asthma, usually well controlled, but I was concerned about her having an attack out on a trail and knew I'd be unwilling to leave her alone to seek help. Fifteen bucks and a little studying was worth it to me for the peace of mind. Admittedly, I'm the kind of nut who brings a ditch bag with waterproof GPS, VHF marine band handheld, and signal strobe on a cruise ship.

[OpusX]

Since we're talking comms, and I am an amateur comms nerd (Extra Class nerd to be exact)...

The Baofeng UV5R has become the default, cheap handheld radio for nearly everyone, right wrong or indifferent. To be very very clear and as technically accurate as possible, these are not legal for use by unlicensed individuals, additionally they aren't technically legal for several common non-ham user segments (FRS, GMRS, MURS) as they are not type accepted (if you want to fall down a hole, here are the mans rules)

Functionally many unlicensed folks utilize these, with typically little interruption, but this is kind of the equivalent of doing any other illegal activity in the open, if no one enforces it people become emboldened to perpetuate it (not a condemnation or endorsement, just stating facts).

What people need to understand at a minimum is there are risks, and attracting unwanted attention can make things "complicated".

The FCC has gone after importers of Baofeng radios, as they are default capable of transmitting on non-type accepted frequencies (https://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-cites-...zed-rf-devices). This has gotten enough attention that the most recent iterations of the UV5R, are firmware locked to ham only bands.

Why do I mention this? Well I can tell you that if you just pick one of these up, out of the box, and just turn on "Channel 1" (wtf ever that happens to be) and you get the attention of certain, lets call them "energetic" hams who like radio direction finding (google "ham fox hunting"), they will revel in finding out who is messing with "MuH frEqUenCy alLOcAtioN"!

Do some research if you are going to get programmable radios, cause not everybody is so chill out there kids .

[MrBarraclough]

About once a year or so, I like to read the notices page for the FCC's Enforcement Bureau. In terms of amateur bands violations, it seems like it is always some disgruntled ham with astoundingly poor social skills getting in trouble for deliberately screwing with his local club's repeater over some stupid grudge he has developed. And it never ceases to amaze me, since we are talking about licensed individuals who know good and damned well that many hams love fox hunting and have huge hardons for frequency misuse. But somehow these dipshits think they're invisible just because they don't transmit their callsigns, like the club isn't well aware of who has an axe to grind. And they're shocked, just absolutely shocked, when they get slapped with $10,000.00+ fines.

Of course, that is only the small sample of people foolish enough to keep it up long enough for the EB to send a field agent in response to persistent complaints. What doesn't show up in the formal enforcement action notices are the people with enough sense to knock it off when they get that first "Fuck around and find out" letter from the FCC.

[OpusX]

MrBarraclough <-- This guy gets it