Do you have more fun with "Bad guns" than good ones?

[Dusty Bottoms]

I’m a hard No on this one. I don’t like janky, I don’t like cheap, and I don’t like finicky. I really love using 90’s era mags that I could never afford as a kid, and pairing them up with my Emek. For me it’s like the appeal of an old sports car or muscle car, your using something that was considered top of the line in it’s era and that’s cool. It’s hard for me to justify pulling a janky Spyder out of my bag to play when I have a beautiful Automag RT ready to go as well. It’s like driving a ‘71 Pinto when your ‘70 Chevelle SS is sitting in the same garage. We’ve all only got a limited time to play this game in our lives, so I want to play with markers I really geek out over. Nostalgia definitely plays a part with mags, but if I’m going to shoot vintage markers from the 90’s I want to use the higher end stuff and not the low end. I played with the cheap stuff for years, no need to relive that.

[Trbo323]

I have more fun shooting the ones that I build from the ground up.

So I guess "good markers"?

The two that I have the most fun with are my ule automag and my mq2 autococker, both are $700+ builds but really it's because I put them together exactly how I want them (the automag isn't done either)

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Lt. head-shot]

I guess part of this might be served by a better definition of a "bad" gun. Based on OP's description, this seems to be things that are out of date, not in production, or choices generalized as "not as good as" current marker options.

To me this means things like... Tippmanns, spyders, STBB's, Automags, old cockers, Nelsons, and basically anything manufactured before 2012. The reason I say this is because I was looked down upon when I showed up to a field rocking my Carter Duck on "mech day". Everyone looked at my like I was nuts. Rocking a Stock Class marker when everyone had the latest and greatest mech marker. I smoked dudes who were dumping an entire hopper in 1v1 games. So even though I was using a $2K+ gun, I was using a "bad" gun by comparison to what everyone else was judging as a "good" gun.

So really to the OP Euphie - what defines a "bad gun"?

[Euphie]

I guess part of this might be served by a better definition of a "bad" gun. Based on OP's description, this seems to be things that are out of date, not in production, or choices generalized as "not as good as" current marker options.

To me this means things like... Tippmanns, spyders, STBB's, Automags, old cockers, Nelsons, and basically anything manufactured before 2012. The reason I say this is because I was looked down upon when I showed up to a field rocking my Carter Duck on "mech day". Everyone looked at my like I was nuts. Rocking a Stock Class marker when everyone had the latest and greatest mech marker. I smoked dudes who were dumping an entire hopper in 1v1 games. So even though I was using a $2K+ gun, I was using a "bad" gun by comparison to what everyone else was judging as a "good" gun.

So really to the OP Euphie - what defines a "bad gun"?

I mean "Bad" as anything other people generally look down on. So it probably varies by the group you play with but, if I bring out something like an Tippmann, Spyder, any pump that isn't a cocker or phantom, etc people just generally consider them bad I think. Double so if it looks old is made of plastic.

Thing is I could take a Brass Eagle Talon, drill it for 1/8" NPT, hook it to my remote, put proper springs in it, polish the internals, bore it for a freak barrel, even hook up a T-stock to it, and I consider that a very viable marker, but people would still think it was "bad" when in essence internally it isn't much different than a Phantom. I bet I would have a great time with it too.

I consider a Tippmann 98 to be a great gun, but most people at the field seem to view them pretty negatively. 'Buy an Emek if you want a good gun, and get rid of that Tippmann' is a direct quote I overheard someone telling a newer player even. Maybe it is because we use 98 rentals, IDK but, I have a blast every time I use a Tippmann 98 because people consider it "bad" double so on Tippmanns with peeling paint.

The reason why I put bad in quotes was that they are not really bad by my own standards, a little jank just adds character is all. It has to still function mostly of course, but give me a Spyder Special edition and I will gladly go against the electros and have a great time doing it.

[Grendel]

I guess I misunderstood the OP I thought the question was do I prefer to use Janky Markers, which I do not. That does not mean I will not use a cheap marker it just has to work reliably. Cost =/= quality or reliability. If I still had it I would not hesitate to use my original F1 Illustrator but while cheap and "obsolete" now it worked well for playing paintball. What I do not get is breaking out a Poison and playing paintball. They were never a good marker so never made it into my paintball bag.

[Magmoormaster]

To me, the most fun comes from using a cocker. But it depend on context. I would never my cocker into an xball practice. If I'm playing a really low key, laid back game, sure I'd have fun with an STBB Or something categorically bad. Probably not "more fun" though.

[BenoitOWN]

I did so many years of running old things that now I enjoy the Emek.

[Myrkul]

If I don't have to sand/trim/dremal/polish or modify every single part on it, then I don't want to shoot it. I love the challenge of taking something old and janky and slowly building up into something unique that is truly mine and performs well.

[Euphie]

Now this is what I am talking about!

[Fubarius]

I think about it this way, if I can achieve my goal (get out on the field, run around, shoot at people, hit a few, win the game with a reasonable frequency), and two guns allow me to do this equally, but one is expensive and once is cheap. the cheaper option IS the better option. This is counter to our usual consumerist culture, where expensive things MUST be better, and people will do some amazing mental gymnastics to justify wanting to, no NEEDING to have the most expensive version of something.

I get no additional joy from having spent more money on something. In fact I often consider unnecessary expense to be a horrible flaw. One that can and will make something WORSE than a nearly functionally equal more affordable option.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Meh I like nice things. I don’t need to justify them I just want what I want. Also the CCM I purchased for $450 is now worth $1300 that isn’t happening with a pumped ION just saying. Higher end gear holds its value and often increases in value. So it really depends on what you are buying.

[drewkroeker]

The jankiest gun with the most soul that I've ever owned was probably my DM3. Oddly enough, I discovered them years after their release and bought a couple. That removable breech is just so cool. I ended up dremelling off the lug and turning the breech 90 degrees, then JB welding a 10 round springfeed that I scavenged from a PT extreme. I even tapped the body for a UL frame, sticking it to the floor with sticky-tak and cutting the threads with a hand-tap. Being able to aim down the barrel and not have to deal with the weight of a hopper was amazing. I had some kickass games with that gun.

I have since jumped on the Eclipse bandwagon and am rocking an EMF100. I have used the DM3 since but I put a rotor on it and goddamn, this thing is heavy! The EMF100 does everything the DM3 did, but more. High capacity magfed, First strike capable, no batteries required. I will probably still use my DM3 but mostly I keep it around for the sake of nostalgia. I agree that most modern guns are "soulless" in a way, but I'm fine with that. I want to play with no issues. I want to be able to hand off my other setups to my friends who come along, and have them play with no issues. Hence, the emek and EMF100.

[BigBalla23]

This thread is hilariously times. I was talking with a friend of mine the other day, about wanting to put a couple super basic 98s together, with revives and basic barrels to play a little heavier at local big games/walkon. People often forget that what's in the hands is way less important than what's in the head(brain)

[Brokeass_baller]

My perception of high end and low end is really skewed. I played my first game in 1998 at 10 years old with my dad in this YMCA father/son group thing. My parents were early adopters of the Internet, so I had had access to a computer for years at that point. That first time I played I was HOOKED. So naturally, I went online and found WARPIG, Bills World, rec.sport.paintball, and Tygers old page before Web Dog. At that point, tournament photos and video clips from as far back as 1992 were everywhere. It wasn't that long ago. And people were competing AND WINNING with Tippmann 68 Specials, and VM68s, and F2 Illustrators, etc.

So in 1998, the Tippmann 98 debuted. I thought that that was a high end marker, because I had seen other Tippmanns in competitive environments on the internet. And the Spyder looked a lot like a refined VM or Illustrator. So when Kingman came out with the TL+ (Tournament Level Plus), I believed it was actually a tournament level semiauto.

Furthermore, my first novice tournament series I ever played in (around 2001) was a blowback-only series. This is where I learned to Dremel away at my Spyder's hammer and play with spring combinations, and polish the bolt, and remove the venturi, and drill in a trigger stop, and basically learned how to tinker with my stuff. This was tournament level stuff to little 13 year old me.

So these "crappy" guns were always at least somewhat high-end to me. So I never learned to hate them like others have.

I have no problem playing games with my 98C, or Millennium Spyder. My Automag and my Autococker are my preferred markers, but low-end doesn't really exist in my head. Blowbacks were tournament guns.

This translates into modern guns as well. People shit on the Gog eNMEy, but it's basically a mechanical Ion, and the Ion was an LPR-less Matrix, and the Matrix was/is a high-end gun. So in my mind, the eNMEy is a low-end high-end gun. Does that make sense?

It's just weird to me. Everything that used to be high-end is now low-end. And everything that is high-end now will eventually become low-end. The terms are meaningless to me.

[Euphie]

I understand that pretty well because when I started plying our local scene was mostly outlaw play and everything was super outdated. For the first year or so at my outlaw field and semi auto was seen as high end. When people rocked up with a Stingray II or a Tippmann they could be scary especially if you just had a pump but, once the fields and pro shops got started locally electros became the new high end.

I think the ultimate issue is in terms of actual eliminations there isn’t much difference between working paintball markers despite the mythic stories people tell

[Brokeass_baller]

Oh yeah, people definitely talk up their equipment. It's like they need to justify spending so much money on it.

And nowadays with magfed, it's also ridiculous. Most of the "high-end" markers are old tech, or based on old tech. The T15 is literally just an ICD Cat in an AR shell. The 468 is a Spyder with adjustable recock. The EMF100 of course is the Emek, which is newer. But the Dye DAM is just a typical Matrix with a longer bolt. Heck, even the M17 is essentially an Automag. Then all the MCS/Tacamo kits are ALL Tippmanns. So high end there is VERY skewed. Magfeeders will drop $600 on a Spyder because it's a nice gun. But traditional paintballers won't break $70 for most actual Spyder's, because they're low-end.

It's a ridiculous.

Sorry for griping. Lol