Bringing Back Electric Autocockers

[Euphie]

I mean if you want one, it isn't too hard to make an E-cocker. I did it ages ago with an open bolt conversion, but you can also just use a ram to pull the trigger plate/3-way and keep the timing mechanical, or go all in and use a clapper noid though that seems a bit more challenging to me as you then have to mount the noid and get electronics that have dual solenoid control (though the Morlock does and it is great)

Heck you can even do things the E-blade didn't if you want, if you use a ram to pull the trigger and a hall effect switch, instead of using a normal spring return ram or a MPA-3 or whatever, you could use a double acting ram and actually have a cocker with an RT effect that could be controlled by a second LPR hidden in the grip frame automag style. The sky is the limit on what you could do if you wanted to as a custom job. However, I don't expect Planet Eclipse to start making E-blades again, though if they did, they could make 100 of them and sell them for $1000 apiece and people would buy them, they could probably make 10 custom 2022 Eclipse cockers with E-blades and sell them for $5K and they would sell out in a week. Still making $50K doesn't really seem all that worth it to them, especially since it would be a one off thing, they couldn't keep making them at those prices as they simply wouldn't sell more than a few dozen and it wouldn't be worth it for normal prices

[glaman5266]

This might be a dumb post, but eh...

What about designing an electro frame like what the Trilogy SF had? (pneumatic rocker sort of thing in the frame to mechanically push the timing rod) I mean, assuming the front solenoid is the expensive part, would that decrease the cost of manufacture? Then basically all you'd have to do is swap the frame & t-fitting and you'd have a mech. Would be easier to convert back & forth. You would lose some tunability, but would that really be so bad?

[DocsMachine]

What about designing an electro frame like what the Trilogy SF had? (pneumatic rocker sort of thing in the frame to mechanically push the timing rod) I mean, assuming the front solenoid is the expensive part, would that decrease the cost of manufacture?

-The thing here is that there's not enough demand for almost any design.

For a 'Cocker, a conversion kit means a grip frame, a circuit board, a sear solenoid, a cocking solenoid, and a few misellaneous pieces. (Grip panels, potentially an eye cover, etc.)

If you're making tens of thousands, that's not that big a deal. Modern manufacturing relies on "economy of scale"- for a variety of reasons, the more parts you make, the cheaper each part is.

But there's not enough demand for tens of thousands anymore. I'm not sure there's demand for thousands. I'd wager that if you make 500 kits, you'd have to heavily discount the last 100-150 just to get them gone.

And if that's the case, each kit- assuming it'd be something like an E-Blade kit, would probably be twice as expensive as it originally was.

When the E-Blade first came out, it was what, $400? Just inflation over the last 20 years has brought that price up to $650 or so, so you'd be looking at a $1,300 kit.

And the higher the price on the kit, the fewer, again, will sell.

Back when the 'Cocker was the hot marker, it was worth at least two companies' time to make grip kits. Today? Inception's the only one making new 'Cockers, and I'd bet a big paycheck that Simon's looked at the numbers already and found out there's just not enough demand to justify the time and expense to develop a new kit. (Hell, even if all he did was reverse-engineer an E-Blade, he'd have $20-$50K just in R&D and CAD time before he cut the first chip.)

Doc.

[ketzer7]

As best as I can tell, Simon has already gotten out of the complete Cocker game. There haven't been bodykits or full guns for sale on his site in months, if not more than a year now, and I was told he has no plans for any new Cocker bodies to manufacture. Kudos to him that he keeps producing the individual parts, but it's pretty apparent he is shifting more and more to the Emek-only market. Worries me that it will only be a matter of time before he stops with Cocker parts entirely, but maybe not.

[cfos00]

I've talked to Simon about some of this, and without putting words in his mouth, he wants nothing to do with electro cockers. He warranties all of his stuff, and they present a LOT of issues that he wants no part of and are out of his control. That doesn't even put things like their abilities to strip a backblock into account (have talked to him about that exact thing). It doesn't have the market to support it and make it worth it, and doesn't make financial sense for him. There are also things like making frames that are enough of a PITA with just his mechs---he makes virtually nothing on them---that adding another one to the line up really doesn't make business sense for him. He does support cocker stuff, but there's a lot that needs to get milled and is more difficult to get done than other markers. Bottom line---it won't happen with Inception.

[Dylantb]

Is Pumzele still working on that Styn valve assy/ kit? Haven’t heard anything for a while

[desertT1]

Pumzele here was or is working on his Styn valve. Brandon at Sci-Fi did a video on a prototype sent to him. Pumzele also has a plan for a board, frame and cocking solenoid system. Neat ideas and I hope to see some updates on his valve and other projects

I’m hoping this valve gets done some day. I sold my MQ2 Karni to buy my first pinball machine. Now that I have 24 pins and 13 of them are in location, I’d like to get an MQ Karni again, and if it’s in the form of a Karni with the valve in design, that would be fine by me.

[Brokeass_baller]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think the Trilogy SF (as well as whatever it was that Center Flag did with their eFrame) is the pinnacle of e-Autococker tech. Keep your pneus, keep your finicky timing, and just use one cheap solenoid to run the whole thing. I think THAT would be a simple enough project for one of paintball's many garage shops to handle.

But it just isn't profitable on any scale above "hobbyist". If it were, the kit would already be available.

Not to mention, with the Shocktech Gunfighter frames, and the Inception hinge, and all that, being able to perform a steady 10+bps with practice, I don't see the point. At this day in age, adding electronics to almost any gun is a downgrade in terms of speed. One player at an ICPL event two or so years ago (somebody help me out with which) was verified at 13 BPS ON A SHOCKER CVO. NXL ramping is a HINDERANCE of performance. Think about that for a minute.

If all you want is a fast Autococker, there are options available. If all you want I is an eCocker, you're probably better off sticking with what's there already.

[gabe]

You can rip 13bps on a modern mech for about 3 seconds then due to fatigue it normally ends up dropping to 7-8bps for semi accurate fire. Sure you can fan the trigger and throw a ton of paint but not really with any accuracy. The point of an electro even at 10bps is that it's that fast all the time and with no training and minimal effort along with very little disturbance of the gun while pressing the trigger. Lots of advantages for an electro over a mech still.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I don’t see it happening, and I get why they came and went. They are not popular enough and don’t even sell all that well used. What could you possibly produce new today around the same price as what is already readily available. It’s not like you can’t find these things and they are bringing premium money.

There fun but I don’t really want to own one outside of a few collectable pieces that happen to be E Cockers.

[Casualwarrior]

If it can be produced for a reasonable costs and done in runs (kind of like the sci-fi board), I think a modern eframe would be epic and wouldn’t have any issues selling. I get it, all the young guys playing tournaments love the latest and greatest stuff. But that’s only part of the customer base for paintball. Each time I go out and enjoy Recball, the fields are filled with guys using nostalgic markers now, it’s trippy. Heck nostalgic markers are what keep myself and all the guys I play with still in the sport. If we aren’t rocking simple emek’s, we are rocking karni’s, E-oracles and other e-cockers. And a day of play doesn’t go by where people ask about/ask to try out the ebladed cocker I’m using. I’ve told myself time and time again, no more paintball projects, but a new modern eblade will again make me question that and several others I’d imagine.

[Knuckle Dragger]

Agreed. Spools are nice shooters, yet pretty boring in looks and feel. There’s nothing like the sweet clacks of autocockers, electric or mech. E-cockers will always have a special place in my heart and I can’t wait for a madman to bring us new frame, and complete the Styn valve so my build and I can be complete.

[Cunha]

I agree that a center flag uprising frame or a trilogy sf frame (both using a cocker 4 way not a fancy solenoid replacement) seem to be the way to go.

i think you can make em clean and basically look like a normal cocker, except a noid is dropping the sear and cycling the pneumatic switch.