Modern mechs with anti chop

[Trbo323]

Are there any? Like a legit anti chop system not a "it just so happens that the operating pressure is low enough that it usually won't chop"

With the current mechs basically following Tom Kayes playbook from the 90s, how long until someone comes out with one?

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[Toestr]

Nothing that's hopper fed. My MG100 has a Lok Bolt that Alexndl printed for me. Works great. Pretty much any mag fed Tippmann has a Lok Bolt for it. You can get the warp adapters for many mag fed guns too.

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[Jonnydread]

Do Emeks chop? Real question. I never chopped with mine, but I only put like a case through it.

[MrBarraclough]

Mine does not appear to. I have good detents and use a Rotor.

[JonM]

Same here. I've never once chopped with my Emek. I suppose its design makes the need for a "Level 10" equivalent bolt superfluous.

[superman]

Chuck E Ducky, The soft tip bolts are not for chopping it is for the impacting the ball.

[The Jayster]

I'm no tech-head but I believe that the Gamma Core in the Emek has a design where the bolt slows down at the very last moment just before it hits the ball. So it does work like a low-force bolt. I know for a fact that the GOG Enmey also has a low-force bolt design. I never chop with either of mine (Emek and Enmey). I might get the very occasional barrel break, maybe 3-4 per season. FYI, a season for me is about 15-20 games at 1,000 rounds per outing.

[imped4now]

That's false - there's nothing in the design that would slow the bolt down at the end of its forward stroke. It does, however, have a low speed first stage, defined by the small orifice at the rear/base of the bolt guide.

[The Jayster]

Thanks, I knew there was something going slower somewhere in the firing process. As long as I don't chop paint, I'm all good.
Say, while we're at it, what's your opinion on the ST3 bolt? Gimmick?

[Myrkul]

In my experience most anti-chops are gimmicky at best and a straight up downgrade at worst (Kingman, Tippmann, & Tech-T).

The Lvl 10 is the only anti chop that actually works, but it's expensive and can be very touchy. I'd imagine most modern players don't have the attention span, desire, or technical ability to set one up correctly, especially now that force feed loaders are as prevalent as they are it's kind of unnecessary. I'd honestly be very surprised if a company sunk any serious R&D into developing an anti chop bolt at this point. It's just going to be too complex to fix an issue most modern guns don't have.

One thing I think we CAN expect, is for bolts with a ramp on the top (Planet Eclipse Cure bolt) to pop up a lot more often in 2029 when patent 7836873 finally expires. Those bolts work insanely well, handle the ever shrinking paint flawlessly, and can be made for super cheap. I have about 8 cases of d3fy (0.682) through my blind B2k with a homebrew version of one in it and still haven't experienced a chop, stack clip, or barrel break. Without that homebrew cure bolt it couldn't make it through 50 shots without creating a soupy mess, so they really do work great.

[Jordan]

Funny you mention this, I just realized the other day that a previous owner cut a ramp into the bolt on my SR Cocker. Should be interesting to see if it works as well as your B2k setup.

[Myrkul]

I bet its going to work awesome. The only situation where I see it not working is if the paint is ridiculously small, like 0.675, and the 2nd paintball in the ball stack sits below the edge of the ramp. The angle of the ramp didn't seem to matter overly much when I test a few different ones so I suspect just about any ramp will work. I'd love to see your real world results though!

[martix_agent]

Hopper technology has advanced to the point that makes poor feeding a non-factor for mechanical guns.
The only way you're gonna chop paint is if you have a bad paintball, or have low hopper batteries. (or just a poor hopper in genral)

[Cyberpyr8]

I've put over 10 cases through my Emek now and never chopped, including the time I had my double trigger Emek. Like Jayster said, maybe a break or two but no chops. I run my Emek with a CTRL hopper and use it like it's an electric. I have never had any real issues with it that I didn't also experience at the same time with my electrics with eyes. There was one day with some really bad paint a few months ago but everything but my Geo and DSR had problems. I don't really think there's a need for anti-chop with the modern mechs based on how they perform.

[Shaftski]

modern hoppers just hold a consistent ball stack better, removing the possibility of any gaps in feed rate

combine that with a solid detent design and there will always be a ball in the breech ready to fire.

eyes on electros aren't even as important as they used to be, considering they are all rate limited now.

[Wmasspeedsoft]

The tech exists with Jack wood

Anti-chop System For Mechanical Paintball Markers


An anti-chop system for mechanical paintball markers, comprising: a paintball marker having a breech and a movable component that is actuated as part of launching of a paintball; a sensor positioned in the breech that is configured and arranged for sensing presence of a paintball in the breech; a control circuit connected to the sensor; an actuatable member connected to and controlled by the control circuit; wherein actuation of the actuatable member prevents movement of the movable component and thereby prevents the firing operation of the paintball marker.

patent info

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20210041206

[Brokeass_baller]

Optical sensor? Control circuit? So, like... electronics in our mechs?

[MrBarraclough]

Like most others, I think that the need for a dedicated anti-chop system such as the Level 10 has been largely obviated by good hoppers and good detents. My mag is a Level 7, but a use a Doc's adapter that has a rubber finger detent and a Rotor so that I have constant pressure on the ball stack. It doesn't chop. It will blow up fragile, tournament grade paint all day long due to the chamber pressure, but it won't chop it. Give it some hardier paint and it performs without incident. My EMEK doesn't chop either.

Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever noticed my electro (Dye Rize CZR) skipping a shot due to a ball not being seated in the breech. I could probably run it with the eyes off.

[Jordan]

I'm of the understanding that Lvl10 systems also get rid of the primary cause of breakage on a Mag - bolt speed. It's not necessarily the chamber pressure, which TK measured a long time ago at fairly low (95 psi?).

[Euphie]

I have ran a hopper of four star without chops through a level 10 mag, it was a single hopper sure, it but does appear that the slower bolt speed really makes the difference

[Brokeass_baller]

Right. Level 10 simply controls bolt acceleration.

That said, I haven't chopped with my level 7 foamie in forever. Granted, I use rec grade paint, and I've been shooting mags for 20+ years, so my trigger control is excellent with them.

[The Jayster]

eyes on electros aren't even as important as they used to be, considering they are all rate limited now.

That's a very good point. Although it is a feature I appreciate in electros, they're not the deal-breakers they used be I guess.

[iamthelazerviking]

I posted about this very thing some time ago. A mechanical method of preventing chops on mech guns. Although, I have experienced only a couple of barrel breaks with modern space mechs, which is was the paint's fault.

[desertT1]

I have a Jam bolt on my 2K Cocker. It’s a two piece design that is spring loaded. If you close the bolt before the ball is out of the way the front half of the bolt will press on the ball and the spring will compress. You will shoot and dry fire and then the next cycle you are back to normal. I know it’s done its thing a few times over the years, but don’t know that it’s been 100%, but if it reduces chops 50-90% that’s a good direction.

[Brokeass_baller]

Cuda, that's how mine is. It has 4 inlet ports, almost like those old conical venturi bolts.

I can't figure out the springs on these, so I just don't use it. The stock spring was so hard that I couldn't see any real benefit. And I've tried a number of lighter springs, and the back block just ends up moving independently of the bolt. I don't know. Doesn't seem like a great system.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Brokeass, sounds right. I haven't used it yet. The cocker it came in needs timing, but I might just throw a pump kit on it and see how it works.

[Brokeass_baller]

I want to like it. It's a cool idea, and I had relatively decent luck with the Spyder ACS bolts and crap level Walmart paint. I might try it without o-rings and see if that helps, one of these days. I think the aluminum is just too heavy, and the o-rings cause too much drag. May have been a better design done in delrin.

[Trbo323]

I know for a fact that the GOG Enmey also has a low-force bolt design.

Lol, this was never designed in actually, it came about by happy mistake. This started with the sp1, smart parts basically discovered that their never ending "low pressure is more accurate" scam had an unintended consequence of running the bolt slow enough that you wouldn't (usually) chop. They could not however claim the same thing on the ion xe because it had a QEV from the factory. But the thing is, the sp1 was the same internally as the original ion but the original ion was never marketed with this as a feature, they didn't realize it at the time

In my experience most anti-chops are gimmicky at best and a straight up downgrade at worst (Kingman, Tippmann, & Tech-T).

The Lvl 10 is the only anti chop that actually works,

Well yeah, if we are comparing the $150 markers to the $700 markers I'm banking on the $700 marker having some better features. Not to mention, are tippmann and spyder even making their acs systems any more?

but it's expensive and can be very touchy. I'd imagine most modern players don't have the attention span, desire, or technical ability to set one up correctly, .

Yeah I'll agree with that, kids these days don't know crap about how their gear functions

The tech exists with Jack wood

[

Ummm, yes and no.

Yes that patent exists

But if you read into it, it's talking about using an optical sensor to detect the presence of a paintball, ie, eyes. So unless PE is planning on building an emek with eyes... And filed the patent out just to prevent someone else from building a mech that also uses a battery, I'm not sure what they are doing there

I'm thinking though that the wording of "mechanical" in that patent is more technical than what we consider mech in the sport. This seems like an attempt to patent eyes in general which seems pretty pointless as it would be easy to prove eyes existed in paintball long before this patent. I'm betting there is probably some super specific thing about PEs eyes that they don't want people to copy

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[Myrkul]

Well yeah, if we are comparing the $150 markers to the $700 markers I'm banking on the $700 marker having some better features. Not to mention, are tippmann and spyder even making their acs systems any more?

I believe there were autococker anti-jam bolts as well thatdesertT1 mentioned. Those are the same tier marker as mags (in my mind at least) but I haven't bothered to try one of the anti-chop bolts myself. They all work off the same basic design, the bolt floats with a weaker spring to keep things in line and to be gentle on paint. No idea how well the autococker bolts worked, but the Tippmann, Tech-T, and Spyder bolts were all just trash. Spyder obviously doesn't make anything anymore, but sadly someone has re-released the Tech-T "super" (shitty) bolt for Tippmanns.

https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/p...mann-anti-chop

I'm not aware of any other anti-chop systems. Maybe a more knowledgeable member can name a few, but the real issue with paint breaks now that we have modern hoppers is stack clipping the small ass paint, not chopping. Its been a long while since I've had a true chop (actually now that I think about it, my last real chop was with a Tech T super bolt. I actually remember watching the paint spray out of holes I drilled in the feedneck). You can tell the difference because with a stack clip the paint is broken an inch or two into the barrel, the breech/feed neck/bolt are usually clean. A chop usually means you have to clean the hopper, feedneck and entire breech area.

Jack Wood DOES hold the solution to stack clipping. It's the cure bolt. They seriously work so well. I'll let an engineer figure out how to put one in a spool valve, but I'm planning on homebrewing one for every single gun I can after wittnessing my B2k & Defiant's performance with them. Currently working on my Impulse, from there it'll probably be my Spyders and Cockers, then I'll even try my tippmanns if I ever get motivated to actually use them enough.

[Cunha]

I never understood stack clipping because it felt like a fake issue to me. I can shoot 10,000 rounds through a viking without a single ball being "clipped" in the stack.

Same with all my other guns with normal shaped bolts.

Same with their offset feedneck. I have many other paintball guns that have actually centered centerfeeds and they don't have issues with the balls bouncing out of the breech. Seems like a fake feature similar to their "intentionally easy to bend" trigger frame excuse which is suddenly no longer a needed "Safety feature" now that they have gas thru frames and much stronger plastic frames than the super weak frames from about 07-2011.

[Myrkul]

You must have really good local paint. It was a complete non-issue when I was playing up in MI and the paint was around 0.685 or so. When I moved to KC in 2018 the largest paint I could get my hands on was 0.682, and suddenly every single gun I owned was a blender. I had multiple guns that had run perfectly for over a decade suddenly become completely unusable. It was extremely rare that I even made it through a hopper at first. I've been slowly working through my collection, and now most of those markers are shooting great again, but it was a huge pain in the ass for me for a long time, and they only started working flawlessly when I adjusted the bolts in them to specifically compensate for it. With the way paint keeps shrinking I imagine it's going to just become a more prevalent issue as the paint keeps getting smaller.

Really wish my field stocked whatever paint your using. Would have saved me a TON of work.