They have a mercy rule. The guy afterwards came up and said he doesn’t play it. Clearly at this field I was in the wrong for calling mercy on a gun owner, and it appears is the norm of a lot of places judging by others comments. Fair enough and lesson learned on my part.
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He still should have accepted the mercy rule instead of doing a dick move. And then clearly told everyone else that he and he alone does not take a mercy rules so if people get a drop on him they know they have to light him up.
just because he does not take it does not mean others dont. But then you get into trying to keep track of who does or doesn't. Then it becomes a problem for the field because tons of people are going to be pissed because they were not given a mercy and shot when close range when someone got the drop on them. So to avoid that I would think the field would force it to keep it level, calm and avoid issues unhappy players new or regulars.Comment
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Surrendering is the job of the opposing player. Your job is elimination. If the chance to surrender is forfeited then eliminate with a shot.
When it comes to a surrender, I line up a good shot, keep my finger on the trigger, I yell loudly "Surrender! Surrender!", and listen for the player to call themselves out. If I see movement before the player says anything then I'll eliminate them with a paintball. I always aim for a pod pack or butt. No need to hurt someone simply because they didn't call themselves out.
As a side note, where I play if you can physically touch an opposing player with your hand then they are eliminated without question.Comment
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Yup, if the field doesn't have a mercy or X # of feet rule there is no reason you should have offered it. To be nice I used to shoot folks in the pack, shoe, or marker when that close. If you offered me that opportunity I probably would have turned and tried to merc you as well. IMO, the moment he started to turn rather than put a hand up, you should have shot him.Comment
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Field culture is tough to fight.... even if you find a place to play that mimics your own playing values, it can change quickly with the right or wrong influences - and that's usually up to the seasoned regular players. I find the longer I stay away from the field the more it seems to change.... and it sounds like that's what happened here. You tried playing within the field guidelines and then found that one guy who apparently plays by his own rules.
I feel ya, bro - going out a few times a season means you want those rare outings to be good or even great, and when they're not, it's frustrating and sometimes, discouraging.
All I can say is, that other dude isn't thinking about it anymore, and neither should you.... chalk it up to a lesson learned, and carry on.Comment
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I dont even offer them anymore. Odds are if Im able to sneak around on them I can get a shot in before I get that close. It aint worth the hassle.Comment
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I’m a huge fan of screaming. You come up behind someone and nuke them with your Thuum and sometimes that’s enough. I did that to a rental a few weeks ago and two others came out of the bunker with their hands up. If you can’t win with class you can always give volume a shot.💀 PK x Ragnastock 💀Comment
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Surrender rules have to be mandatory, or non existent.
there is no “option” of surrender its really stupid. Always a problem causer.Comment
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I play the way that makes me happy. Sometimes other players pull jerk moves, that's on them.
I go right back to having fun the next game.
Play your game man, don't sweat the jerks.Comment
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My local field has a surrender rule that is the mandatory ask, no mandatory acceptance so, if you do try and bunker someone it sets you at a disadvantage for sure. Also no regular will ever surrender, so it is just an opportunity to shoot back at who is trying to bunker you. I personally am not a fan of any sort of surrender rule, probably because back in the day no where I played had such a rule so navigating it is frustrating to me. My inclination is that if being bunkered is too much, then perhaps we should be starting renters and kids on .50 or something, but even as a kid I got bunkered plenty without hating life too much.
I will say I played at a place that has mandatory surrender and I seen the disadvantage in that as people who are really far away will yell surrender, turns out either people are trying to get an advantage or aren't very good and figuring out how far 20 feet is, but this leads to arguments when one person thinks the other is required to surrender and the other thinks they are too far awayComment
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Here is where is see the problem.
"And every safety speech give after that the manager added you don’t need to accept a mercy and can just shoot the person instead."
It sounds like the ref doing the safety speech in the morning (before incident) made it sound like a mandatory surrender. Then after a problem changed the safety speech to reflect what they really meant.
I personally dont like optional surrender rules. I feel it's all or nothing. Your being made to not shoot them from close by being made to offer surrender, BUT openning yourself up to being shot from close because they don'thave to accept and are allowed to shot. Where the logic?
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In my experience the all in all or nothing doesn't really work either though, because people will try and use it further than they should, or the person who is asked to surrender thinks it is further than it should be, either way it is something to argue over and disagree about. Having no surrender rule at all is IMO the best compromise because if you want to surrender yourself you can always put your arm up, I feel like playing the game is consent to being shot potentially at any distance.
This is also why as much as I hate it now that I play at a place where gun/hopper hits don't count, I appreciate how much less whining there is about people who have been hit in the hopper and didn't notice it. Rules for rec ball should probably be streamlined for the least amount of conflict and complexity.
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I don't care for the whole surrender thing. Like has been mentioned some people don't go for it. They get embarrassed getting snuck up on and spin half the time. That said I don't care for the whole spinning on people in general in recball. If someone has your back, just accept that you're out..
One of my first times back out after a long hiatus, one of the groups was taking it way too seriously. I fair and square bunkered one of them on airball, barrel pointed down and away from me, no confusion. Then he proceeds to turn and shoot me in the back. Like this isn't competing for the championship it's for fun.
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The only time surrender works is if you come up directly behind someone and give them the chance, if they turn or do anything other than raise their marker and say out, shoot.
Shoot them in the podpack or butt or whatever... dick move to shoot the back of the head, especially up close.
The only thing I see dickish to the OP is they shot you in the face. The class thing to do would be to shoot you in the chest.
Who knows maybe he meant to shoot your goggles and missed.
I've had my bumb days, sometimes you just start the day wanting to have a good time but aren't quite there emotionally, and it only takes a few things to put too much negativity into your mind. I've been there. I usually need a buddy to wake me back up and get my groove going again.
I've come to the realization that paintball is a game of shooting the other guy, and any rules saying otherwise usually just generate conflict and sadness.Comment
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So from what I gather:
It sounds to me like you ran up over the top of a large bunker he got in spun when you yelled “surrender” because it gave your good move away, and shot under your chin. I get why he didn’t think he did anything wrong. According to the rules he didn’t. You hesitated in his eyes and he took advantage of it and it worked out for him. He was able to spin shoot you one time in the chin before you could pull the trigger. I don’t think he purposely aimed for a throat shot. It’s probably what was presented from the ground and you over the top when he spun with a ball already loaded in his pump marker.
Getting shot directly up or directly down sucks for everyone involved it’s best to avoid it. My recommendation next time is don’t try and surrender an experienced player heads up over top of there bunker unless your prepared to get shot close. If you get close, you have to expect to get shot close. Next time play back and battle it out, or if you want to make that move come around the side shoot him in the pack or back one time as you pass. This exposes you less to cover fire on both sides at the same time allowing you to take a forward position on the field. It will also keep you from getting shot from a low position regardless if the move works or not.
A Surrender is really only good for rentals/new players/ or a friendly flex (offering it when you don’t have to) when you have a players back. It’s not even a rule at most fields. More common is minimum engagement ranges and it’s a much better policy for new players. But even that (at least from the many fields I have played on the East Coast) it’s not all that common.
Honestly If you have good refs and people practice restraint fields don’t need rules on bunkering. Paintball is simple Don’t be a dick just play the game by the rules and don’t pick on new players. Key to being a good Paintball player is knowing the crowd your playing. I think it’s just a bad situation that could have been avoided if you just pulled the trigger and kept it moving. Don’t let it sour your day next time. I caught a good one to the throat this weekend myself.Comment
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Yup, it sucks. Had the same thing happen yesterday as well. Snuck forward and had a guy dead to rights with my barrel about 8 inches from his balls as he rounded a corner. There is a surrender rule (optional) and a barrel tag rule (not optional) at the field. I figured I was close enough so I yelled the old "bang bang", and he turns and smacks me with 4 balls. I was pissed but he gave me the same speech about how its optional and he doesn't have to surrender. Should have just shot him...
Field owners either need to make it no surrender, or mandatory surrender. Having the option to shoot you after you have them dead to rights does nothing but cause constant issues. The "fog of war" gets too much adrenaline flowing and all logic or fairness goes out the window. Its why everyone is screaming all the time in tournaments. All the testosterone and adrenaline just creates little monsters out of some people...Comment
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Especially in those Bang Bang situations. If I have the option, I’m taking my chances. But I’m perfectly ok with getting shot close and I will happily except the fate of my pore decision. Minimum engagement distance is really the best way to protect new players. I Personally Hate mandatory surrender. I played a scenario with one and never went back to the field because of the way it was implemented and extorted. All a player had to do was touch a bunker and everyone in it was out. It became a foot race more then it did paintball. 6 people could be on the other side one apposing player uses the shadow of it touches it everyone is out. The paint was horrible so you had to get close to even get an elimination it was so counter intuitive. The rule destroyed game play on what otherwise was a great field. It’s fairly local and I probably haven’t played it in 5 years or more. The field is super unique and massive but the bad expensive paint and that mandatory surrender rule makes it so I don’t play there or recommend playing there. They do cater to a lot of New To the sport City folk so o get why they have it. But there’s are definitely better ways to go about it. -
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily like mandatory surrender. It gets exploited like you said. But there are just so many stories where the confusion/optional surrender just makes it such a hassle. IMO I'd rather have a field owner say no surrenders but don't play like a dick and blow peoples brain out at point blank - rather than have the ambiguity. I've also seen the min engagement distance thing go both ways. You have people who complain that someone violated it and shot them too close. Or the "parley" rule where if you both get too close, you have to back off and re-engage. That one in particular becomes a giant hassle. No perfect solution for everything of course, thats just not how the world works unfortunately. -
Agreed when it comes down to it I’m of the mindset of just let paintball be paintball. If you don’t want to get shot close keep that head on a swivel and keep your distance. Not everything in life needs to be nerf’ed down. Just treat other players how you would want to be treated. Just don’t be “that guy”.
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