10 BPS Gun Setting Rule: Did Tournament Paintball Get It Wrong?

[Meleager7]

To get the shooting speeds down, Tournament Paintball organizers decided on required 10 BPS Ramping settings on all Tourney level guns as the solution.

My criticism is this Ramping mode effectively turns the marker into something robotic, where the trigger pulls are disconnected from when the gun actually fires. I've never used the Mode, but I imagine playing tournament paintball is akin to just aiming a fire hose downfield and directing it around the play area. That seems kind of boring, and soulless to me. They seriously could create a new mode called "10 BPS Full Auto", and it would play exactly the same on the field. Boring.

From a spectator perspective, the 10 bps cadence with no variation is also not interesting. If I'm at an event, and I closed my eyes, it would sound like I'm in some factory, hearing some sort of pneumatic industrial equipment constantly running in the background. From the sidelines, we also don't get to see what these modern markers are capable of !!?

It's made me wonder if the Tournament organizers should have made the Loader the limiting, equalizing factor instead of the Marker?

My thought was , maybe every modern Loader should have been required to have a "10 BPS mode", where it could only feed at a 10 BPS max?

Then all the cool tourney level guns could be set back to the exciting, possibly terrifying, Uncapped Semi (in short bursts ) !!

Discuss!

[Jonnydread]

I've been out of that flavor of ball for a long time, but speedball just seems more boring than it was during the days of uncapped semi. I will always support limiting paint, it encourages spontaneity and innovation.

[Shaftski]

not a fan of ramping reminds me of turbo shockers. if you listen to a shot string from most speedball players these days, the first few shots are waaaay slower than when the ramp kicks in. so if they see you move and start shooting, those first few arent tightly spaced and you have an advantage.

just set set to 10.5 bps semi and learn how to shoot like in the good old days enough of the autopilot crap.

[shadow191]

Limiting through the loader doesn't really work I think. You'd only get a few shots in before it skips. I have a Spire and it works great on mechs but if I shoot uncapped semi it can't always keep up. I once tried ramping set at 20bps just for fun and it barely functions. Supposedly a Spire is good for ~15bps so lowering the feed rate would make it worse. Would have to go back to stovepipe feednecks to get some more balls in before it misses.

I don't use ramping as I hate the way it feels. And it's way too easy to overshoot since you always get a few more shots off after you stop trigger pull. But I don't mind playing against people who are ramping, you can put out the same amount of paint on semi with an electro.

[Seajay]

If the limit was set to the hopper I bet you'd see a return of stove pipes and assisted feeds. Everything after the hopper gate you could fire as fast as possible.
It would be the inverse of ramping today, slow walk to auto, instead to fast walk to slow auto.

It would make absolutely no difference.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Tournament paintball is far from boring. It might boring to watch but what sport isn’t. I would say all sports are boring to watch eve more so if you have never experienced those sports or know what goes into playing them or what’s going on. It’s a terrible spectator sport companies have tried and tried and tried to make it a spectator sport. Even with today technology it’s still terrible to watch. But tagging up at a national event waiting for the buzzer to drop with your boys is an adrenaline dump like no other only bested by Winning an event you just spent 6-9 months prepping for.

ROF cap is an equalizer not a handicap or for lack of skill.

Tournament paintball is just a different way of playing. Playing competitive paintball requires discipline and a high level of skill and teamwork. It is not an individual style of paintball it requires a team of dedicated players at the top of their game to be competitive and win.

There is a disconnect between the formats that one it better then the other they both are wrong. It’s paintball and it’s fun. When it stops being fun it’s time for a change of hobby’s.

These markers are checked for speed and chronograph every time you step on the field. You will not get away with cheating for long a good reff can tell if the marker is shooting a higher ROF just by sound. Most season players can and will gladly take the major penalty if the opposing team is riding that line. They way it’s done now and the Clocks they use you just have to get close to a player and all the info needed will be given to the reff to make a judgment call.

It’s not for everyone, it’s extremely expensive, time consuming, and requires extensive detection to be competitive. I’m not talking your average walk on 5man group. I’m talking the ones who actually compete. It’s not a half ass thing it’s a hole ass or get smoked out of your boots in prelims. There is a lot to it. You hone different skills on the 5 man field than you do in the woods.

I learned to snap shoot on the Xball field but I honed my accuracy it in the woods with a pump. I find Xball players in the woods very easy to find. They don’t use camo and it’s easy to know exactly ware they are at by connecting the dots of paint. They often shoot alot. The tactics used on the Xball field, much different than those used in the Woods. Many people sower to the speed ball crowd because they often get over shot. Catching 4-6 in the back in the woods would be a douche bag overshooting move. On the Xball field it’s called getting bunkerd and happens regularly and it’s not for everyone. It’s Two different types of games people need to be able to play to the audience when they go play woods/ rec. That’s why you have these big disconnects in the formats.

Woods is more of an individual game vs xball 5man 10man is a team sport. Not saying you can’t go on a woods field with a team. The Boys of Ragnastock will feast on any woods field. It’s just a different style and that’s ok if you don’t like the format or the people that play it. For me I don’t care what equipment others shoot shoot 20 bps for all I care, just don’t be a douche bag when you get shot and don’t overshoot people. Respect the game.

So no I don’t think Tournament paintball got it wrong with 10.5 it’s working well for them. That number is just a bar set to give a standard playing field. That’s why the bunkers are mirrored that’s why the velocity is capped. It’s designed to keep as even playing field as possible so teamwork strategies and skill can shine. The idea that they are less skilled is false. Anyone who has had a chance to battle guys at the top of the game knows this.

[Mr. Hick]

Chuck, You Effin nailed it man. It's paintball. It's still fun, it just isn't the same.

[SignOfZeta]

Speedball is stupid. Ramping is stupid. Semiautos are stupid. Inflatable barriers are stupid.

I think that’s everything.

[Roger7pball]

Black corrugated plastic piping is not stupid. I hope.

[zinger565]

As much as I resisted ramping back in the day, I have to admit that it's the most fair rule for ROF and Firing Mode out there at the moment, besides maybe full auto. Going back to uncapped semi, or even capped semi, would likely usher in another wave of cheater boards. As Chuck E Ducky pointed out, with the current ROF limits, it's very easy to tell just by ear if someone is over the limit. Unfortunately, it seems like the US arm of the NXL is heavily against a limited paint format, which I think could add another layer to the current game and limit the often boring "pocket" games.

As for the tournament/non-tournament discussion, to each their own. I prefer all forms of speedball, but I also vastly enjoy big-game events and the occasional woods game. Despite having several very capable electronic markers, I often play mech, even on the xball fields.

[glaman5266]

I think limiting the paint one can carry (or a total for the team per game) is an interesting idea. It would make players actually have to strategize and think, and maybe would help instill more trigger discipline. I think games would be much more interesting to watch with a rule like this.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I’m pretty sure the NXL tried limiting paint a team could carry and it failed to draw what it needed to stay an official format. The formats are sustained by the players. When people stop or don’t play it they die off. Yeah NXL D-500 they called it. It fell on its face 7 years ago.

[blitz121]

I've always wanted to try a Limited paint format, where each team gets X amount of pods between whoever is going out on the field for that point. Similar to D-500 but you can share paint. So Hoppers full, here are your 12 pods share those out play point.

Or another bizarre thought. Allow for only x amount of pods per match. Here are your 30 pods for the next 10 minute session. Good luck.

[Meleager7]

Adding to my first post, this experiment could be run in an afternoon......take a couple high end teams, let them set all their guns to uncapped semi, give them all Revvy's , or protoyz Speedster loaders, and let them have at it !

Observe from the sidelines if the game changes, for better or for worse. Make a note if tournament paintball becomes more interesting to watch.

Interview the players themselves during and afterwards for their perspective as well.

[shadow191]

It would probably increase the number of snap shots because that's all you'd have before you outrun your loader. Maybe more movement since nobody could hold a lane. I'd think it would be very frustrating for the players. 3 shots pause, repeat.

[Tinybear]

I never been a fan of ramping or electros in general. I have only owned two electronic markers in my 25 years playing. And only one of those had a ramping mode of which I never used.

I would be much more inclined to watch paintball if it was back to the all Mech play. More so if I was able bodied enuff I’d be much more inclined to play a tournament style game as Mech only.

But that being said generally speaking. Any kind of shooting sport is rather bland to watch.

[Magmoormaster]

I agree that ramping is boring but you are not forced to use it. When I played NXL, I used semi. But there is a reason why tournaments use ramping and not full auto.. It's a safety issue, and it makes you responsible for each shot. Overshooting becomes much more deliberate. Like I said though I do prefer semi. I like being able to shoot a consistently lower ROF with one finger, or go up to the ROF cap when I want to.

I don't think the 10.5 BPS change was bad, compared to 12, 13.3, 15, etc. It's pretty clear based on the fact that it hasn't changed in over a decade means it's working.

I also wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that tournament play, or speedball writ large, is bad.I will always have more fun playing speedball than woodsball. 75% of the time I spend on a woodsball field is spend being bored. I play paintball to shoot people, not to play hide and seek.

[Jonnydread]

75% of the time I spend on a woodsball field is spend being bored. I play paintball to shoot people, not to play hide and seek.

Do you have many non-outlaw fields that have that kind of setup out by you? I call pretty much anything that's not airball or hyper woodsball, but the game style is still pretty in your face and high energy. I still occasionally play the classic woodsball that you are describing (sneaking around and whatnot), but it's almost exclusively during outlaw games.

To add to the conversation I think a 3 shot burst only tourny would be fun.

[Magmoormaster]

There are no commecial woodsball fields in my area. It's either commercial speedball or outla woodsball. But the most popular woodsball field isn't particularly large, 10v10 is plenty enough people. But it will still devolve into hide and seek. As long as there are places to hide, it will always be that way.

[zinger565]

My local field has two of what you would call "speedball" fields, one air (well technically two, but indoor is only used during poor weather) and one hyperball. However, there's also 4 other fields that are speedball sized, but use various different things for bunkers (barrels, some old boats, shipping containers, tires, etc). Those fields are all played in the same style as speedball though.

They also have one traditional woodsball field that is rather large, but not often used unless specifically requested, or for big-game/scenarios.

[glaman5266]

Over by the Twin Cities is Splat-Tag. It's pretty much oldschool woodsball, with a bunch of smaller fields that are combined for scenarios. They do have some fields that can be played as speedball fields and those are usually the high-activity areas during larger scenarios. So it's a mix of both, depending on the day's activities. Splat-Tag can accommodate 300+ people & usually gets that for their spring Giant Big Game. Highest number tag I saw last spring GBG was 409.

[Grendel]

The beauty of this sport/hobby is the myriad forms of play. No form of play is worse or better then the other across paintball there just are individual and group preferences. Please let players play what they like and players please do not be myopic and try as many venues as you can, variety is the spice of life.

The tournament series picked the methods of limiting the BPS "war" by the simplest method they felt they had given electronics they had presented to them by the various manufacturers. These are organic rules made as the sport changed not out of pre thought. If they really wanted to control BPS electronic markers are the way to go. I could design an electronic circuit that could easily be limited to 10 BPS (or any other value you wanted) from the factory with protections to prevent tampering. This would be extremely simple to do with any of the electronic markers, would be cheap and extremely small. Then you would have a semi-automatic electronic marker that is incapable of shooting more then ''x" BPS. This could even be integrated with the mechanical trigger that activates the electronics so the pull weight and distance of travel are all the same. You want policed BPS Electronic is the way to go. This is not the case with mechanical, mechanical markers would be much harder to control.

Given all that, let the "tournament" crowd have their game and set their own play rules based on their preferences. There are plenty of other venues, go find the one that fits you. If it doesn't exist them you go ahead and create it and if it makes sense and you are dedicated like minded individuals will come.

[Brokeass_baller]

Personally, I greatly prefer mechanical or pump over electro play. That said, I'm a big fan of 10.2bps over the 15bps ramping. In the age of the electro, I think it's necessary. We've all forgotten about "super-semis" and the cheater board era. While I would GREATLY prefer uncapped semi tournaments, it just isn't possible with modern technology. 10.2 allows for more field movement, and requires better communication. I honestly think it's fun to watch.

But when I play, personally, I have much more fun with my mechs.

[glaman5266]

I haven't forgotten. 15.5 PSP sucked & all it did was make the players shoot more paint which helped contribute to the paint market (& not in a good way). We are all aware of how poor that currently is.

However, if I can shoot over 10 BPS on semi then I should be allowed to. I prefer uncapped semi if I'm playing electro.

[Brokeass_baller]

I have an Angel Speed and a Proto Reflex Rail. I'm VERY comfortable with both markers, and can easily send a stream of paint greater than 10bps. That said, it wrecks walk-on play, and honestly makes me a worse player, because I tend to camp out instead of move. And moving is half the fun of the game. I get a better adrenaline rush with my mechs, pumps, and magfed.

[glaman5266]

I’m aware of the issues uncapped semi can create, but I still prefer it. If I have ramping or full auto it actually encourages me to sit in the back & just blast away. With semi I need to make my shots count & if I’m sending a string I have maximum control of it.

That said, I play mech 90% of the time. It’s just more fun & I’m not just blowing off paint.

[glaman5266]

I'm gonna be that guy & say that this is an age-old argument all about something that will be beaten to death over & over again and it will NEVER be stopped. I personally don't see any reason to discuss this anymore, as I've beaten that dead horse over & over in years past. I quit worrying about that when I realized that everything goes in cycles. After the BPS wars we had a pump resurgence. Then we had magfed picking up in popularity & mech coming back. Next will be the electro thing again.

Honestly, I think this whole discussion is a borderline waste of time where everyone's opinions are valid but there's no good way to go about doing anything without marginalizing another form of play or outright pissing people off.

As for firing modes, I understand the capping function of ramping. As Grendel said, electronically enforced caps are the way to go if you're going to implement something like that. It's fine for whatever tournaments want to use it for. I don't see much room for improvement with the current system. Let the governing bodies and individual tournament hosts make the rules for their own events.

But what I don't like (and this is subjective) is ramping for safety reasons. Sure, it limits the BPS of a paintgun, which is good for safety. But in my experience ramping is harder to control than a slow full-auto. I'd rather take a 10 BPS full auto (giving or receiving) over a 10 BPS ramp any day. I understand capping things for safety, but I personally don't think the arguments against full auto hold any water unless you're above whatever cap is in place. I started playing during the 15.5 PSP days & know what it's like to get ripped up the side. I don't like ramping & see little use for it outside of a way to integrate a BPS cap.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I think the safety thing has to do with. If the trigger gets stuck, you fall, or drop the marker on something it could go full auto by itself. With ramp it’s Gunna fire 1 or 3 at most.if the timing is just right.

[glaman5266]

Semi only (capped or uncapped) with trigger switch requirements/standards fixes that. Ramping is a lazy way to make things “safer” while still promoting the accuracy-by-volume mindset, which has caused other huge issues in the sport. I mean, it’s currently the easiest way to implement a BPS cap in a format where ramping is standard/expected, which is fine. I get that. But to say it’s safer than capped semi is debatable at best.

[MrBarraclough]

Chuck nailed the safety issue here. Ramping is better vs. true full auto because it avoids a runaway gun in the event that a trigger gets jammed in the depressed position. The firing mode is a safety issue. The ROF cap is less about safety and more about paint consumption and how movement-oriented the game can be.