Opinions on unlimited respawns

[iamthelazerviking]

Is there a time and place for it, like in big games/scenarios? Or do you think it's ok in your average every weekend rec play?

I've played respawns in certain game types, but not every single game until yesterday. It's good that they changed up the games with different styles and objectives, but unlimited respawning just makes you waste way more paint which I know is their intention because $$$$$. Not a fan.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Depends on the situation. On a large game with a lot of players it can suck. But one of the most fun games I played was an unlimited respawn game. Players went out in pairs vs everyone else. If you got eliminated you went back to the start, and waiting until a second person was eliminated and head back out on the field as a team. Great way to play with different players and keep the game moving. If you’re tired you could just sit off for a bit and come back on.

[Cunha]

That’s a pretty fun format idea for a right size game. It’s like each time your team mate and you re spawn you are playing an all new game.

[JeepDVLZ45]

I think there is a place for unlimited respawns (timed games), but I’m not a big fan of them, I enjoy single elimination much more now.

It’s a good format for walk-on and beginners, especially for fields that only have 1 field or share with airsofters.

if played properly, it will help you learn a field, learn your marker and the short.

It gives you the opportunity to be a little more aggressive or maybe take that big chance on move up the field without the repercussion of being “out”.

It also lets you lean lines and shooting lanes a bit better since you have the extra time/chances to study them and retry them.

HOWEVER….

accept that you’re going to get shot A LOT. The most welts I’ve ever come home with are always “respawns games, also accept that you’re going to shoot a case of paint every time.


just my $0.02

[Toestr]

It's okay if the point of the game is for one team to have to defend a point for a specified amount of time. The game gets more intense as it goes on as the defenders numbers dwindle and the attackers remain just as strong. I dislike it for everything else though.

A local field will run 'elimination' games with no other objective other than to shoot opposing players with unlimited respawns. So there is basically no point to the game unless someone keeps track of the kill count for each side (which they don't). I honestly don't know if this is an attempt to get people to buy more paint or if the staff just don't understand what makes the game appealing to people. What I do know is that there is no sense of accomplishment.

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[glaman5266]

It depends on the game. For longer scenarios with objectives & whatnot I like it. I mean, to keep people playing that's the way you'd have to do it. I wouldn't play big scenarios otherwise. And I think it takes some pressure off people, allowing them to go at their own pace.

For recball, usually no. If there's an objective for both teams to work for or if it's an attack/defend game then I can see having unlimited or X number of respawns. But for a simple shoot-back-and-forth game then no. Though I have played Ironman games on speedball fields before (play 'til you run out of stuff or quit), and I didn't mind it. If the games are being run as such & everyone is OK with it then fine.

It really depends on the games that are advertised. That's the key IMO. I view full-auto in a similar way. If the scenario allows it, it's advertised as such & everyone understands it then I'm cool with it.

[Olsson]

TLDR - yes, with a good arrangement, respawn games can be very much appreciated. Beginners don't have to leave the field for making a beginner's mistake, and most players can feel they get a good game with several eliminations, since there are more eliminations to be had each game.


Longer version - I've arranged paintball game days on week ends for years, and I usually have several unlimited respawn games each and every outing. I usually try to mix thing up depending on how many players we are, and their skill and/or equipment. Usually respawn games are just as appreciated as any other style of game. It all boils down to the crew and the arrangement, basically. Oh, and I of course also vary the size of the field and game time depending on the amount of players, and the specific variant of game we're currently playing.

As for the exact versions, well, a very common game when I am running the show is the "Capture the hill/fort/whatever". Basically the defending team gets a single life, whereas the attacking team gets unlimited respawns, from a single respawn point. Play one match, switch sides, compare the time it took to capture the fort, and the fastest team wins. In my book it is a great type of game, because it means that even the weaker players get to feel that they have "won", when they inevitably capture the fort, even if it turns out their team had the slower time doing it.

A variant of prolonging this game is to give the defending team three different points to defend, falling back to the next one after they have been eliminated - and of course leaving the field at the last defense point. This game means A LOT of running for the attacking team. Both variants are great to run with a "no pods on the field hopper limit". Basically, the defending team gets just one hopper of paint, (or one per defense point), and the attacking team can only refill their hopper at the respawn point. So it is up to the attacking player if it is worth it to spray and pray, and then having to run back to reload.


Another game form I run is "The bucket game", where both teams have unlimited respawns from a single respawnpoint. There are three buckets for each team to collect, in their team's color. However, the buckets are on the enemy team's half of the field, so it should be impossible to make a dash for a bucket at the start of the game. The team will have to communicate throughout the match, on which side to focus their push, on which side to defend, on which side they have already captured the bucket, so denial of the enemy team's bucket is what remains, and what side neither bucket is in play, as to not waste any players on that side.

"The bucket game" need to have a time limit, usually 15-20 minutes depending on the amount of players. The buckets should be placed one in the centre, and one each to the sides, although not all the way out to the tape. The buckets should be placed in line of each other, so that if you spot the enemy bucket you need to defend, you should know that your bucket is straight ahead. Oh, and it is obviously strictly forbidden to in any way move the enemy team's buckets. Also, no throwing of the buckets. This game can be run with or without any kind of paint limit. It all depends on the crowd, basically. With paint limit, there will be the more of the occasional lull in the action, where capture of a bucket is possible. So most buckets captured at the end of the game time - or first team to three buckets - wins.


Another crowdpleaser is "Zombie". One or two players start as zombies/attackers, and the rest of the players start as humans/defenders. The playing field should have two flags, one at the end of the field, at the defenders' side, and the other half way up towards the zombies/attackers approximately. The zombies have unlimited respawn, the defenders have a single life. The zombies win when they have toppled both flags, and they have to topple the closest one first. So when the last flag has fallen, the zombies win. The defenders can start at any position they so choose over the entirety of the field. The zombies start at their end, at the respawn point.

The twist with the game is that every defender that gets eliminated runs to the zombie respawn point, and becomes a zombie. So over time, the zombies numbers are getting bigger and bigger and bigger... Also, there is usually a lot of mind games going on. If you are playing as defender with your best buddy, and the two of you are in two great positions next to each other, and your buddy gets eliminated - you now know that he will be back as a zombie. He knows what exact position you were defending. You know that he knows exactly what position you were defending, etc, etc.

Preferably all the defenders have arm bands, and the zombies does not. So it is imperative that each eliminated player removes his/her arm bands at the respawn point, or confusion and indignation will soon follow. I always ask for volunteers to play zombie, and those who haven't played "Zombie" before usually never volunteers, whereas those who have played it usually gladly starts as a zombie.

In all paintball game forms, there has to be a clear goal to play for, a clear way to win, and a reason for players to want to clash with each other, rather than to hide in order to win. Zombie is a way of fooling the players how to win, and what they are playing for. In the end, the zombies will topple the flags, so at my field we kept a running score on what was a good time to win for the zombies. Also, the defenders should be able win on time running out, forcing the zombies to attack rather than loiter around.


Those were three versions of respawn games that are usually highly appreciated, and that can be run on pretty much any field that isn't too small, and with a wide variation of players. Also, I reiterate - limited paint works wonders on respawn games as well, limiting the amount of paint getting thrown, thereby alleviating both the amounts of welts and the amount of $$$ by the day's end.

[Cunha]

Great post thank you for sharing. I would love to play at your field and your approach reminds me of the approach of some of the most enjoyable days I had playing a bear creek / Los Gatos pursuit which had very thoughtful and engaged refs all who were nppl refs.

It makes a big difference and I gotta tell you I appreciate big time all the extra fun that your hard work as a ref makes happen.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I’m indifferent on it. I just can’t stand the invincible player rule or any shields. Other than that mix it up.

[glaman5266]

Agreed.

Though sometimes invincible(ish) players can make for an interesting game element. In one of the scenario games I go to every year there are mannequin parts on the field. If your team gets a complete set you get a Terminator. The Terminator wears a jersey with a white square on the front & back. Shooting one of those is the only way to eliminate the Terminator. However, the Terminator's movement is limited to main paths only & can only move at walking speed (a ref follows to make sure rules are enforced). Can make things interesting at times, but it has to be done right.

[Trbo323]

Depends on the situation. On a large game with a lot of players it can suck. But one of the most fun games I played was an unlimited respawn game. Players went out in pairs vs everyone else. If you got eliminated you went back to the start, and waiting until a second person was eliminated and head back out on the field as a team. Great way to play with different players and keep the game moving. If you’re tired you could just sit off for a bit and come back on.

On a large game with a lot of players it can suck. .

Define large game. Because I play Oregon supergame which is 1800 players and if there were no respawns it would absolutely suck

In most situations I'm actually a fan as long as it's done well. We have all seen that new player that is discouraged because they have the bad luck of getting shot first multiple games in a row. Respawns make it so this player doesn't have to wait a half hour to try again.

In a larger game (40+ people) I really like it when the respawns are timed. So everyone in the dead box respawns every 5 or 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how long you have been in there.

For a ref this makes things simple, all the foot traffic is going towards the dead box until there's a respawn and there's a wave that goes the other way. Playing on the field it makes it so you get a wave of reinforcements every x minutes

Game lasts X minutes, whoever has the flag up at the end wins

Simple, and everyone gets to play the whole game

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[Cdn_Cuda]

I mean large game walk-on, not “big games” like scenarios and the like. Definitely needed for special games like that.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I think that’s what I like about instant respawns. It allows for more aggressive game play. I like limited paint play so I like to move up close to conserve shots. You don’t make every bump but it’s nice when it’s just a short walk and a tag and go when you get eliminated. You definitely play the most paintball with instant respawns. I prefer instant over timed.

[Trygve]

My local field has started doing this for most of their games and I dont like it at all.

- It makes everyone shoot way more paint.

- It doesnt feel competetive at all anymore.

- No satisfaction when I shoot someone out.

- No adrenaline from wanting to survive, find myself doing stupid stuff likestanding outside my bunker waiting for someone to shoot at me because i know ill come right back in.

- lazy way to ref and they are doing a much worse job of it

- turns all gametypes into zombie horde vs zombie horde, no tactics

- should encourage movement for newbies but they are still so scared of getting shot and there is way more paint flying so they barely leave their bunker.

- I shoot someone they come right back for me 1 minute later, no way to move up.

basically it sucks, i dont mind doing it at the end of the day to use up paint. But every game? No.
Limited respawn is okay but still only half as good as good old no respawn.

This is for a field with avg 15 players a side. Dont know about big games.

Coming from a pump player. I love when I can slowly shoot out one side with a few teammates and work my way around a flank. Doesnt happen in respawn.

[coyote]

In most unlimited respawn games players are still eliminated from their position by being hit. They frequently have to insert at a starting point removed from the front line action.

That certainly allows players to advance on positions, be competitive, and execute the tactics you like.

[Trygve]

coyote sure but when there's 6 people on a side of the field. Say you get one or two out initially, by the time you get a couple more people out the first 2 are already back and covering your advance again.

I guess its heavily dependant on the size of the field. But I notice much less movement at my home field when we play unlimited respawn. You think it would be the opposite and people would be more ballsy, but I find everyone just hunkers down and refuses to move because there's constantly 10 people shooting at you from every direction. On a normal elimination game its only like that for the beginning and then things tend to open up quickly.

[coyote]

I agree with you that the situation is certainly dependent on the size of the field and the moxie of the players.

[The Inflicted]

It can work well as long as there's an objective that's out of shooting range of either of the spawn areas.
Unfortunately, most modern fields don't have any fields large enough to do this properly.
If the game is simple elimination, or centerflag with the hang points near either teams' spawn, forget it.

[homerj]

My local field does unlimited respawns. Games are 15 minutes long & usually a decent walk from the staging area. I’m not what the kids nowadays call “good”, so getting eliminated right off the bat or very early in the game would mean sitting around for possibly 10 minutes or more. I’d hate that. Unlimited respawns means even a crap player like myself will get a lot of playing time in throughout the day. I’m sure it doesn’t hurt the field’s paint sales either.

[Impactfour]

It definitely depends on the game mode and field set-up. At my local spot they have a few fields and a few game modes. On the larger fields they play domination and capture the flag with unlimited respawn and a time limit. They also play an attack and defend with unlimited respawn for attackers only and a time limit. There's also simple one elimination speedball style play. I find the unlimited respawn games to be more fun as long as the teams are balanced enough that neither team takes over the field. People are encouraged to make bolder and braver moves. However, on smaller fields id rather play elimination because it's too easy to end up spawn camped with a bad team.

[coyote]

A player with trigger discipline doesn't shoot profoundly more paint in a respawn game.

I can be argued that a player is likely to shoot more paint defensively in a single elimination game.

[Trygve]

My other issue with unlimited respawn is...even when you are successful at flanking the enemy team. What do you do when you have them back to their respawn? I found myself just taking shots at people as they left their base, barely respawned. Not sure what else to do. Then they walk back twenty steps, turn around and I shoot them again? I felt like calling myself out. It wasnt fun for me and Im sure it wasnt fun for them.

There is no provision for this at my field (which is generally well run, or used to be).
Curious what other fields rules are for this? You don't cross the center line, or a certain perimeter near their base?

[Impactfour]

My local field had this issue on one of it's fields, they put in a rule that you couldn't go past about halfway on the opponents side (their 25 in football terms).