Recreating ancient seals...

[DocsMachine]

Decided to make a separate thread for this, to try and keep things easy to find.

I just made a 'test batch' of new seals for the AGD 4500 Flatline:



Still testing them, and I have a set off to Superman for even more testing, since at the moment I can't get a full 4500 PSI fill. I have confidence they'll work, but of course I want to make sure they do. It's possible they won't last as long as the originals, but they'll be inexpensive and I can easily keep them in stock.

Stand by for news on that one.

Oh, and I'm still checking, but I believe these will also work in the Air America "Raptor" regs, and I have one in a Unireg, too. (Which, now that I think about it, should mean they also fit Gen-X regs. I'll have to dig a couple of those out to check there, too.

Also, by request, I cracked open one of my Dynaflows and took a look at that. The "main seal" is a machined plastic piston (the translucent bit)...



That I should easily be able to reproduce as well. I just need to do a bit of research into the material- it's harder than Delrin, but not as hard as acrylic. Might have to do a bit of experimenting, but that should be doable as well.

And, I already have an ICE Epic on hand to take a second look at the infamous reg seal in there. I poked around at it last year, but was looking for an original manufacture piece. No one's been able to track it down, yet, near as I can tell, so like the Montneel seals, it's time to reinvent that particular wheel. Haven't had a chance to open that back up, but hoping to get there before too long.

Anything else you ladies and gents can suggest? I already have Equalizer seals on hand, both reg and trigger-block seals. The reg seals also work in RG-1 inlines, and early WDP Miniregs.

Caylegeorge already has most of the Eclipse reg seals you might need, listed in the Dealer's section, so what does that leave? I'm sure there has to be something...

Toying with the idea of putting together Stabilizer and/or Rock LPR seal kits 'til Craig can get PPS back on its feet, but I also don't want to step on any proverbial toes if that's one thing he either still has in stock or can easily produce again.

Doc.

[Painthappy]

This is great!

[Toestr]

I think the Dynaflow seal is made of Kevlar.

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[superman]

I forgot you were working on the ice epic stuff as well. I may have some of those kicking around if that would help.

[DocsMachine]

I think the Dynaflow seal is made of Kevlar.

-I don't think Kevlar is available in a solid rod. That's the kind of thing used to strengthen other materials like Nylon. "Fiber filled" plastics are common, but in this case, the original piece is translucent, not far from being transparent. I doubt it's "filled" with anything- most filled plastics are opaque.

Now, I don't have to use the exact same stuff. A Delrin piece I think would work fine, but I suspect would wear out more quickly than the original. Acrylic is harder, but brittle- it could shatter, which would be catastrophic. Still digging through some options, I may have to buy a sample of several options and do some empirical testing.

I forgot you were working on the ice epic stuff as well. I may have some of those kicking around if that would help.

-Thanks, but I think we're covered. I borrowed a known-working gun, and I plan to try and reinvent the seal- something that can use off-the-shelf O-rings, so we don't have to rely on custom-made seals.

I have an idea in mind, based off what I can recall the last time I dug into one of these, but I need to open it up and start doing some direct measurements before we can know for sure.

Doc.

[Toestr]

According to this Warpig article (https://www.warpig.com/paintball/tec...01/index.shtml) it is Kevlar. Not sure if that's a misnomer.

[Araphel]

It's made of PCTFE aka kel-f or neoflon. Same stuff as Air America bottle reg seats and AKA tornado valve cup seals.

[XEMON]

Maybe a bit off-topic, but any chance you may want to have a crack at an old ACI "bulldog" externally adjustable tank reg?

PS: this is the older square reg, not the "newer" round ones ...

[Tracker]

oooooooo that main seal for the dynaflow looks a LOT like the main seal for the centerflag that came stock on a lot of the old matrixes

which reminds me, i can send you an old centerflag for your project

[imped4now]

The Dynaflow is a Centerflag product, so that would make sense.

[iamthelazerviking]

Time to save up for an Epic 🤣

[infamoussmiley]

Factory original cup seal wafers for the vm-68 cupseal assembly?

[DocsMachine]

It's made of PCTFE aka kel-f or neoflon. Same stuff as Air America bottle reg seats and AKA tornado valve cup seals.

-That's actually one of the materials I was leaning towards, along with Rulon-J and one other I seem to have closed the tab on.

Thanks for the info! How'd you know that, out of curiosity?

Maybe a bit off-topic, but any chance you may want to have a crack at an old ACI "bulldog" externally adjustable tank reg?

-Not off topic at all. And I have one of those floating around here, too. Let's put that on the list for now- I already have too many regs pulled apart on my workbench at the moment.

that main seal for the dynaflow looks a LOT like the main seal for the centerflag that came stock on a lot of the old matrixes

-Well, Dynaflows and Hyperflows were made by Centerflag, so that tracks.

which reminds me, i can send you an old centerflag for your project

-Which Centerflag? I have those Dynaflow and a Hyperflows on the table now, and have confirmed they use the same internals and seals. (Point in fact, the Hyper, which hasn't been attached to a gun or used in any way, in probably ten or twelve years, still had a couple hundred PSI in it. )

If you've got a Centerflag inline/HPR/foregrip style reg, I'd be happy to take a look at that, too. I'm not sure I've ever had one of those apart- they never seemed as popular as Stabs, Uniregs or CPs.

Doc.

[DocsMachine]

Factory original cup seal wafers for the vm-68 cupseal assembly?

-Sheridan style poppets like that are brass with a steel shaft and crimped shut. It'd be almost impossible to replace just the seal portion, but the entire part could be reproduced.

An interesting thought, I'll add that one to the list.

Doc.

[Dusty Bottoms]

Doc is there information out there that list the size and durometer oring specs of those Dynaflow regs? I’d love to try one out since they’re such a neat, compact design.

[DocsMachine]

I haven't looked, really. That's the kind of thing that I figure was last posted on some long-gone board, and if it got reposted anywhere, it'd be buried in somebody's Facebook feed or something.

I've been working up O-ring specs on each one of these guns I've worked up seals for, I could sure put up a page with the info.

Doc.

[Tracker]

-Well, Dynaflows and Hyperflows were made by Centerflag, so that tracks.



-Which Centerflag? I have those Dynaflow and a Hyperflows on the table now, and have confirmed they use the same internals and seals. (Point in fact, the Hyper, which hasn't been attached to a gun or used in any way, in probably ten or twelve years, still had a couple hundred PSI in it. )

If you've got a Centerflag inline/HPR/foregrip style reg, I'd be happy to take a look at that, too. I'm not sure I've ever had one of those apart- they never seemed as popular as Stabs, Uniregs or CPs.

Doc.

yeah, its one of the old stock pre-dye matrix centerflag HPR's... it creeps, i tried to resurface it and thought i did a good job, so there might be some slight dimensional inaccuracies, it did nothing.. but on the plus side it didnt make it any worse...

[Levi]

Anything else you ladies and gents can suggest?

Doc.

Sydarm?

Ok I'm brushing away the cobwebs to dig this memory out, but isn't there some sort of special secret sauce seal in the Sydarms? In the 2013 to 2014 timeframe I bought a lot of parts from AGD, and ended up placing most of the orders over the phone. The guy running the show there I can't remember his name... Dave maybe? idk. Anyway, a lot of those calls ended up drifting into random topics. Anything from old paintball stories to shooting his AR-10... just random. During one of these conversation we are talking about the Sydarms, and he mentions there is a special seal in there. Won't tell me what it's made of, but says it comes from somewhere on the other side of the Atlantic. He seemed pretty sure nobody would figure out what it was. Now I don't see Sydarm rebuild kits on the AGD site anymore... and inside the one Sydarm kit I have are two kinda fat blue O-rings that don't match anything in a classic or an X valve.

Anyhow, back to tank regs... no rush, but I've got two Dynaflows and one Flatline to service whenever you are ready to sell me kits 😎

[Levi]

Doc is there information out there that list the size and durometer oring specs of those Dynaflow regs? I’d love to try one out since they’re such a neat, compact design.

Here's what I have archived from way back.