Who's tried small scale paint manufacturing in the last decade?

[TF_Aloha]

I left paintball for about 15 years and just returned a couple years ago when COVID restrictions lifted. I found out pretty quickly that paintball quality had gotten real bad (like I now completely regret buying more gear when I came back than just an EMEK) and that paint producers selling in the US had gotten down to just 5 real sources :

1. Kore - GI Sportz plus all the old labels they bought
2. Valken - Valken paint and probably Social
3. HK Army
4. Pro-Shar
5. D3fy

I did some research to find out where stuff is made and realized that only half of one company is still made in the US (RIP Nelson)

1. Kore - Canada
2. Valken - US (they own Victory Gelcaps, CA), South Korea (made by ThinkBig!), and various Chinese manufacturers on Alibaba
3. HK Army - Various Chinese manufacturers, may still some in Mexico, but A LOT of Chinese lately
4. Pro-Shar - The Netherlands
5. D3fy - Various Chinese manufacturers, maybe a little from South Korea sub-contracted by their main China source

I had the thought that everyone does, how do we make our own? I already did the research, I know it's probably several hundred thousand just to see the first ball. OK, out of my league, but it seemed like someone could make it work. The margins aren't phenomenal, but there seemed to be a niche for it. Paint has gotten worse due to a competition to cut costs, so a race began to find out who could replace the most PEG and virgin gelatin and still get a store to order another pallet. I've seen people refer to small companies trying it, but so far I've only found two in the past decade, APX and Rage.

Mike Hinman sold APX to Valken, who re-named it Victory Gelcaps. From what he's said on podcasts, it was just very labor intensive without much return, since most fields wanted cheaper not better, and China can get pretty cheap. The machines are still running in Anaheim making Valken paint with the "Made in America" logo, and probably Social. APX made Social originally, and Social is still claiming the same Made in the USA origin, so I'm guessing they just continued with the new owners.

Finding information about Rage Paintballs is a lot tougher. I know that it lasted from, I believe, 2017-ish to the start of COVID. The machinery is still owned by the same guys, but it's now up in the GOG/DLX building in Pennsylvania making CBD and maybe other cannabis products. From what I can tell, they did 100% PEG, 100% Virgin gelatin, no oil, starch, or recycled gelatin. Basically they undid 20 years of cost cutting on ingredients. It looks like they wanted to sell wholesale to stores and managed to get in a few places before disappearing. If anyone knows more about them, I'd love to hear about it. Aside from a dead Facebook page and their not so great site on the WayBack Machine, Rage seems lost to history.

I think I understand why it hasn't worked (many fields care more about price than quality since their customers are either rental newbies or captive ballers with no better options in a 3 hr. radius). I'm just trying to figure out if other people had attempted anything different. What other attempts at small scale production have happened in the last decade, like after everything merged into Kee/Kore/whatever?

[Ecapnation]

David, meet Goliath.

Let's look at the reality of things.....

Kore/GI has such a strangle hold on production that they will likely proceed to price you into chapter 11 then heroically offer to buy you out of existence.

[latches109]

the paint from Asia is doing that to all of them

[TF_Aloha]

Oh yeah, I totally get why these guys didn't work out. Their customers were promoters and fields. The existing companies actually do events really well as long as they're worth sending a truck to, and fields were usually heavily price motivated.

Fields know that their rental customers are mostly price motivated when they're planning parties and they aren't knowledgeable enough to recognize that paint is bad, nor would they remember it a year later when the same friend has their next birthday. This means that most fields want to buy the cheapest paint possible for at least half their customers. Fields attract rental parties with admission prices and cheap rental packages and then make their money back by marking up the paint that every newb has to buy when they realize that 100 balls only lasts a game. This means paint companies will always land fields by competing to have the cheapest paint possible, which a small company can't do. They might buy some better stuff too, but fields are really hooked on the bad stuff.

I think that all of the big guys were watching D3fy to see if they could maintain a consistent product for the last few years and now they're racing to do the same thing. I actually think D3fy did too well though, and they'll shrink down a lot soon. They don't actually have any major expenses since they don;t own anything, so they have no reason to totally stop importing as long as they can cover rent at their warehouse. I just think that now that HK Army and Valken seem to be jumping in on the Chinaball train, they'll be able to force D3fy out of fields since the other two companies can offer other products as well.

[BrickHaus]

This^ plus. They hold fields down by offering extremely cheap wholesale prices, but force them to stay exclusive for said prices.

My home field has admitted that they would love to carry other brands ( I was swinging for big ball Nelson at the time) I was saying, Id happily pay 80 a case for nelson I can shoot through my brass guns if it shot well. He said GI made him sign an exclusive paint contract so he couldn't carry Nelson.

[Ecapnation]

Also since we're talking last ten years...

Hydrotec
Gap
severe
Dye (yes really)

[TF_Aloha]

You rock! I just finished with the HydroTec saga. Wow, sad and crazy story.

I think you've just given me enough reading for the night. Thanks!

[latches109]

Since covid quality ingredients have been harder to source / too expensive. When input sources keep changing, keeping a consistent end product is difficult. I do not think any North American manufactures want to make bad paint.

google Perfect Circle -Tom Kaye

[Shane-O]

Last I knew, Nelson is still making paint in the USA.

[TF_Aloha]

They announced (last year I think) that they're getting out of recreational paintballs. They still do special purpose marking stuff, but they're out of the sport side. I think at least. There have been a few sightings, but dunno if anyone has confirmed new product.

Whatever they do though it still in the US of course. I didn't mean to imply that they joined the ChinaBall gang!

[Ecapnation]

Only clear training rounds

[DocsMachine]

There is no way you could set up a proper encapsulator for less than a couple of million. And with the state of the market today, there'd be no real profit in it. A relative few of us want quality paint, and are willing to pay for it, but the vast majority want it as cheap as possible.

There is virtually no market for "premium" quality paint today.

Doc.

[DocsMachine]

google Perfect Circle -Tom Kaye

-Perfect Circle is a plastic shell projectile. They don't make paint balls, they make pepperballs, police UV dye marking pellets, movie SFX balls, and that sort of thing.

Doc.

[iamthelazerviking]

I just resort to buying the best I can, when possible, and when not just overbore (again, if possible) use an Emek, pray for the best.

[BrickHaus]

Also since we're talking last ten years...

Hydrotec
Gap
severe
Dye (yes really)

I wish those hydro tech balls took off. The videos made them seem so promising.

[Ecapnation]

I think it tried to come back as fluid and failed as well

[Morgenstern]

We’re thinking too big here. What if paint was more like home ammo reloading? I watched the how it’s made paintball video and all but the encapsulator would be easy to make a scale version of for home use. Any 3D printer/Machinist/engineer folks able to make a bench top encapsulator and maybe a precision gelatin roller? Probably super complicated but you could sell DOZENS! 😀

[Morgenstern]

We’re thinking too big here. What if paint was more like home ammo reloading? I watched the how it’s made paintball video and all but the encapsulator would be easy to make a scale version of for home use. Any 3D printer/Machinist/engineer folks able to make a bench top encapsulator and maybe a precision gelatin roller? Probably super complicated but you could sell DOZENS! 😀

As a bonus, maybe it would be popular for custom bath beads and maybe drug dealers, too? You could boof a slow release .68 pill of whatever the kids are into these days. I’m probably banned, remember me!

[DocsMachine]

Personally, I would love to see somebody try a small scale/home-shop paintball encapsulator. The technology is simple and common, long since out of any patents, and mechanically straightforward.

The devil, as they say, is in the details.

The big trick, I think, would be the shell. You need to take liquid gelatin, and rapidly cool it- but not completely- into a still warm and flexible ribbon. Before it can dry/cool/cure too far, it has to be squished through the rollers to form and seal the ball. That sounds easy, but I suspect that if you're working from scratch, on a budget, in a garage, and with only basic equipment, it would actually be extremely tricky.

It's all by no means impossible, but you're not gonna pull it off in a garage with a 3D printer and grandpa's old Southbend lathe, either.

Doc.

[ford]

I've theory crafted in my head a ton about what this game would look like if paintball manufacturing could be done local by a field or region of fields.

Are there any hot street drugs out there that require encapsulators? Maybe police impound lots have some gear one could borrow? =P

[SignOfZeta]

If I was serious about this and had non-infinate money to spend on it I’d see about working with existing manufactures to make special label runs with better ingredients, etc. The machinery owned by GI Sportz could just as easily make good paintballs as bad ones…

I got back into paintball in 2019. Other than all the rounds being too small I haven’t had a problem with Valken at all. Field paint always sucks.

[TF_Aloha]

All of the brands already make some excellent paint, the problem is that it's almost impossible to get outside of large events. The quality of paint coming out of paint trucks is still outstanding, but because there are so many tiers below that paint that, if stores want to carry it, the price will be prohibitive. Also, since good paint needs to be shot fresh and no one has ever forced paint companies to put dates on their perishable products, very few people would want to buy super-expensive, likely old and degraded paint.

[Shane-O]

Didn't Gino just buy a couple machines and started making his own here in the US? I thought I seen something on FB about it.

[TF_Aloha]

Gino/Valken bought APX in Anaheim from Mike Hinman and then renamed it Victory Gelcaps. Gino recently put a post on Facebook about bringing the size of paint back up a tad. They're making some of Valken's paint there, and maybe Social. I think anything with a "Made in America" label is going to come from there. (Note, D3fy's "Formulated in the USA" label is just there to trick people)