Is it me or... (tournament scene observation)

[The Jayster]

Ok, touchy issue here and old man ranting-mode enabled, but:

Is it just me that's doesn't give a damn about the tournament scene? I mean, when you look at the promotional/marketing material from paintball manufacturers and retailers, you'd think that the bulk of their business involves the tournament scene. Also, you have all those paintball videos about player X moving to team Y, team A vs. team B... I don't know about you guys, but I do.not.care.

Now, before I get a flight of poisoned-tip arrows slung towards me, a few caveats: I respect tournament players, in that you need skill forged by discipline to get where you're at. If you want to get really good at paintball, you have to look at what they're doing and go at it. The fact that they'll shoot in one month what the average player may shoot in a year is a good thing because paintball manufacturers base their specs and requirements upon what tourney players go through. Succinctly put, if that solenoid can easily handle, say, 250 000 cycles in one year without wear for a tourney player, that will be more than enough for the average recball player.

Yet, how many times do you hear manufacturers/retailers say stuff like "that marker is reliable, you'll spend less time in the pit or miss your next point". Pit? Point? I play in the goddam woods, thank you. What? I can't have an LV2 and play in the woods? Or at scenario games? It's as if the mentality is "for you plebes, an A-5, an Emek or at the most, a 180R should be good enough". What would be really interesting is to see the % of high-ends and super high-ends (I define 'high end' as guns like the 180R, DSR+, Shocker, etc,. and 'super high-end' as the CS3, M3+, Luxe, etc.) actually sold to the rec crowd vs the tourney crowd. I'd venture a guess that a substantial % is sold to players that will never set foot on a speedball field.

Thoughts?

[Magmoormaster]

99% of the MCB population, including myself, doesn’t care about tournament paintball. I have no idea who won World Cup this year, or when it was. I only know a handful of names, most of which have been playing for a decade. I’ll watch highlight videos and that’s about it.

That said, I do vastly prefer speedball/airball over woodsball. I play paintball to shoot people, not to play hide and seek.

Regarding marketing; I know for a fact that they don’t look down on woodsball players or think that a 180r is the best you’ll do. I know that because A) companies like planet eclipse have sponsored woodsball only teams and given them limited edition team guns (desert edge being a prime example) and B) they make camouflage gear. Speedballers don’t want that stuff. That said, woodsballers are far less likely to buy a $1500 gun than speedballers are. They’re more likely to buy a 180r and call it good than go buy a cs3.

[The Jayster]

"I have no idea who won World Cup this year, or when it was. I only know a handful of names, most of which have been playing for a decade. I’ll watch highlight videos and that’s about it."

That's exactly, word for word, my own situation.

"That said, I do vastly prefer speedball/airball over woodsball. I play paintball to shoot people, not to play hide and seek."

Where woodsball is concerned, sometimes we do need to define it as it seems to be a catch-all term for rec play. For instance, my home field features a 'tireball' which is akin to a speedball field in terms of both field size and bunker size. Whoever has 'speedball' skills (ambidextrous snap shooting, very tight profile, accurate fire on the move, etc.) will prevail, whoever doesn't (hiding, trying to sneak around) will not. We also have a larger field with smaller bunkers where 'traditional' speedball skills would also be required to have the upper hand. And then of course we have the more traditional, less open, rec/woodsball fields, which of course are preferred by the bulk of our rec players. As a matter of fact, while I like them all, I'm one of the very few ones (maybe THE only one) that absolutely loves the tireball.. "oh no, Jay wants us to play at the Tireball... again!"

[Siress]

you posted this in a forum that predominately consists of old woodsball stock class players/retirees and industry vets. The latter will tell you that their largest recurring customer base (as opposed to 1-off players for events and such), by far, is the tournament/speedball players - not by number of players, but by profit. Neither of these groups are going to give one pea-sized turd about anything you just mentioned. Not even a sweaty skid mark.

That said, plenty of "speedball" guns are marketed to both crowds. Recall the various camo anodizing options... Woodsballers can always find value in tournament-grade gear, but the reverse is rarely if ever true. It's easier to consolidate the marketing to the group that covets the performance metrics that the design was created to achieve.

[The Jayster]

"The latter will tell you that their largest recurring customer base (as opposed to 1-off players for events and such), by far, is the tournament/speedball players - not by number of players, but by profit."

"Woodsballers can always find value in tournament-grade gear, but the reverse is rarely if ever true. It's easier to consolidate the marketing to the group that covets the performance metrics that the design was created to achieve."

Those are excellent points, which I had not considered.
While tournament players may not constitute a high % of customers overall, they may constitute a high % of recurring customers. For instance, a rec player may still be satisfied with his 160R bought 5+ years ago, while a tourney player within that span went through the CS1, 2 and 3.

[Trbo323]

For the most part each field plays pretty similar from one point to another. Since the are really only minor differences between the field at one event to another, each event plays pretty similarly as well.

So, all the action is pretty much the same, all the fields are pretty much the same, the gear and rules are always the same. About the only thing left to change is the name on the leaderboards and the weather.

It's basically groundhog Day

This is why I've always said they need to change something major between each event if they want to increase viewership

Event 1 electro.
Event 2 mech.
Event 3 7 man
Event 4 mag feed
Effect 5 urban field




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[PumpMan10988]

It's just you. The NXL continues to exist because of the massive numbers of competitive players across many divisions and many countries.

The marketing departments for the major paintball businesses know where the real money is at, so that's the angle they pitch from. If it didn't work they'd have stopped in the mid/late 80s when tournaments started picking up steam. Although there are dozens of us older, woods preferring, pump toting weirdoes here, most of the money to be made in paintball (from a large scale business perspective at least) is with the competitive scene. Why do you think HK Army is more prolific than Palmers?

I play almost exclusively walk on rec-ball in the woods, or scenario/big games. I still enjoy the occasional walk on game at the airball field, and I still enjoy watching the professionals do it on a speedball field. I have to believe there are enough NBA/NFL/etc fans here to grasp this concept. Pretty much all of the awesome technology we take for granted now was derived from tournament player's needs: actually good hoppers, HPA, barrel sizing, quick change lenses, etc. My point is that the two groups are intertwined, not mutually exclusive.

I think you are adding the "us vs them" narrative to the marketing teams messages. I absolutely agree that Planet Eclipse is trying to go after a specific market with the "Super High End" category. I think that's because they understand how much the casual player is willing to spend, versus someone who intends to compete is wiling to spend. It has nothing to do with segregation though. The MG100, emek, and DAM are good examples of a major tournament focused brands catering to the rec market.

To your speculation about sales: I've seen plenty of fancy kit being used in the woods for sure, but I'd be willing to wager it's just a drop in the bucket compared to what you'd find at any NXL event.

tl:dr - Paintball is fun no matter how you play. Ignore marketing language. Shhh let people enjoy things.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Electro players buy a lot of expensive equipment pretty much every season they’re gettin all new gear. That market is huge! Way bigger then you think, and bigger then you likely see at most local fields. Competition side of paintball is a massive money maker. Add space adjusts to that.

Whens the last time you purchased a new marker?….

[coyote]

What's a "new marker".

[Chuck E Ducky]

Not purchased 2nd hand.

[RAZRBAKK]

It's as if the mentality is "for you plebes, an A-5, an Emek or at the most, a 180R should be good enough".

I think that's a bit of an over-simplification. You pick 10 recballers and 10 speedballers at random and most of the speedballers will have high end guns. The rec-ballers? It's a different story.

Who are the rec players that are buying high end guns? The ones with disposable income. For most rec players having the latest high end space gun simply isn't as big of a priority as it is for tournament players.

Truth is, for most of us plebes, an A-5, an Emek, or at the most, a 180R should be good enough.

[SignOfZeta]

This thread is the paintball equivalent of complaining that MTV doesn’t play videos anymore.

No. It’s not just you. Nobody cares about “pro” paintball. This is why they don’t play it at the Olympics, they don’t show it on TV, it doesn’t pay, nobody has ever retired off it, and all those dudes girlfriends have left.

Listen…pro paintball is what the coolest kid in the trailer park does before eventually moving onto the landscaping career that will define the pre-prison era of his life. Don’t take that away from the guy. His life sucks enough as it is. Let him catch the football the night of the big game.

[Trbo323]

Who are the rec players that are buying high end guns? The ones with disposable income. .

Throw a stone on this forum, you'll probably hit 3

This does also matter what you are referring to as "high end" I own 2 markers that were at one point in time considered the highest end available. No I didn't buy them new. But I also haven't seen any features I really care for over the two I have. I'm solidly rec player, the only real event I play is Oregon supergame and really I don't care what the score is at the end.

A lot of people seem to think it's somehow a waste to bring a speedball marker into the woods. Performance is performance and the marker doesn't care if it's next to a canvas sack of air or a tree. If the player finds value in what the marker does, great, buy it.

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[kevin qmto]

2023 was the first year I didn't watch a single point of pro paintball and I'm not sure how to feel about that. Yet I still rewatched old Traumahead videos from the early 2000s on a regular basis...

[Jonnydread]

I'm with you man, I love that turn of the century tourney ball vibe

[RAZRBAKK]

Throw a stone on this forum, you'll probably hit 3

This does also matter what you are referring to as "high end" I own 2 markers that were at one point in time considered the highest end available. No I didn't buy them new. But I also haven't seen any features I really care for over the two I have. I'm solidly rec player, the only real event I play is Oregon supergame and really I don't care what the score is at the end.

A lot of people seem to think it's somehow a waste to bring a speedball marker into the woods. Performance is performance and the marker doesn't care if it's next to a canvas sack of air or a tree. If the player finds value in what the marker does, great, buy it.

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I am specifically referring to current or very recent year models.

[Chappy]

They still play tournament paintball, eh? Good for them, I admire their stick-to-it-ivness.

[Trbo323]

2023 was the first year I didn't watch a single point of pro paintball and I'm not sure how to feel about that. Yet I still rewatched old Traumahead videos from the early 2000s on a regular basis...

It's more interesting. The teams don't have matching gear for the most part because that's before full team sponsorship. It almost looks like a rec game but the players are actually working together. Still in the time of meaningful innovation. Today, the whole team shoots the same marker and it's getting to the point that unless you get a closeup on the marker your may not even be able to tell which model it is. It's become one size fits all paintball and it's just so.... Boring

I am specifically referring to current or very recent year models.

Ok. I'll still say that if a player finds value, for whatever reason, great, buy it.

They still play tournament paintball, eh? Good for them, I admire their stick-to-it-ivness.

Lol, there's a mechanical league now as well. But that's quickly becoming the next BPS war so we will see how long it lasts

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[RAZRBAKK]

Ok. I'll still say that if a player finds value, for whatever reason, great, buy it.

Ok, and where did I say they shouldn't? Feel free to go back and read what I said, because I'm still not sure what your original point was in quoting me.

[The Jayster]

Whens the last time you purchased a new marker?….

Fair question; that would be last summer when I bought a Phantom from EV and a Shocker AMP from a Canadian retailer. When I look at whatever I bought in the last 15 years (30+ markers), I'd say that roughly half of it was brand new and the remainder used. But even when I buy new, I very seldom pay the full sticker price as I have a knack for finding deals (I usually save 15-20%). OTOH the bulk of flagship markers I've bought were mostly used as why would I pay full price when a new iteration would come out within 12-18 months?