Building an OG electric marker

[Magageddon]

Smart Parts ION's are still an option, there are tons of aftermarket parts and you can build one for well within your budget. Their not my favorite gun to work on, but super customizable and can be had for pretty cheap.

[Psycho91]

Really, I thought most were having problems with the armature going out in them I would build a couple of them

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

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[Psycho91]

Iv always wanted one but good luck finding one

[latches109]

I’d say maybe a Matrix but those are not OG by a long shot.

I’d say the pre-dye matrix are OG and also a ton of fun. The tinkering is getting 10 of the same part just to find the one with correct tolerances.

Omega (Matrix) began is journey in 1994 after a conversation between Mike Lukas, Roger Hurst, and Lee Kirwan. Patent was filed in 1997.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5613483A/en?q=(Lee+Kirwan+paintball)&scholar&oq=Lee+Kirwan+ paintball

[Daltech]

Ahhh, I didn’t know about pre DYE matrix’s. I’m happily corrected by my real homies.

[latches109]

Dye bought the rights to the matrix in 2003

[Magmoormaster]

Yeah the pre-DYE matrices are super fun guns. I’d probably go with one of those if I could find one in budget.

other cool early electros:
Toxic Toys Tribal. Similar to an impulse but IMO better and cooler. They had cool milling patterns, cool anos, and single trigger options.
ICD Freestyle. The earlier models should be within budget. They’re definitely old school, but also rather modern feeling.
Brass Eagle Rainmaker. How has no one mentioned this one yet? Theyre one of the jankiest paintball guns ever made. Lots of fun ways to build them out too.

Others have mentioned the ICD promaster. That would be a good choice for something somewhat modern. Not as many options to “build” per se. I’d agree that impulses would be a good option as well, since there’s so many parts out there.

Maybe it’s obvious, but most of the early electronic guns used standard off the shelf noids that will still be available, so those won’t be too problematic to replace if you need to. And the boards can usually be replaced with universal boards.

[Frmrspec]

I made 6 angels. Don’t do LED or LCD. Pain the ass. You know what, don’t do anything WDP.

Whats wrong with Angels? LED/LCD parts are still a plenty, and they are damn near bullet proof. Sure there aren't as many aftermarket parts available as Impulses but few other old school electros do....

I love my old school matrix's and freestyles, to me they had the best "feel/shot quality" of old school electros.

Theres a guy in the facebook ICD forums blowing out a ton of projects... but be sure to think about how much work you want to put into one... thats the only reason I would advise against tribals, the only real "upgrades" currently available would require a very custom route even though there were some really cool models.

[Frmrspec]

LED/LCD's have rebuildable rams... the non servicable rams didn't start until much later (I think G7/A1 specifically). Batteries are basically moot because you can easily get a boards that runs 9v's or buy new rechargables for like $15-$20...only metric parts are really the screws but even those are "standard" metric. Funny enough about the breech size, LED's have smaller breech's but I haven't seen any issues with detents because of small paint and you can get a soft face bolt to help with roll back

[lizardking132]

Yeah no, literally just the led and lcd angels have rebuidiable rams, all the other models are crimped shut. There's a guy on eBay (or there was) offering to machine the rams to make em rebuidiable

[Myrkul]

My local field paint is rolling through 0.675 inserts on pump guns. I'm a sucker for lost causes and fixing the unfixable, but I am not even going to try to run that through a 0.70 breach, soft tip bolt upgrades aren't enough. And thats after ignoring the metric screws, detents that are abysmally insufficient and the fact that I need all new electronics just to make it go pew. Then you factor in the prices...if you are patient you can get 3-4 Bushmasters, or two heavily upgraded and modded ones for what you would normally pay for one angel. It's just not worth it.

[Frmrspec]

If you want something OG and rare without being unreliable.. you can go with AKA markers.

[Psycho91]

Think I'm gonna build a few ions and pick up a bushmaster, bko, or promaster at some point

is their a difference in a bushmaster, bko, and b2k

Also what about freestyles is it worth owning one, if I remember correctly they kinda some issues

[latches109]

kevin qmto is the person to ask

[Myrkul]

Bushmaster is the same thing as a B2K. They are EXCELLENT markers. Fully EP stacked tubes. They hit the market years before the impulse and are far more refined and handle much better IMO.

Pain points would be the wiring harness is fragile, the stock regs suck, and it can be tricky to find ICD threaded feednecks and barrels. Halfway through 2003 they switched to autococker threaded barrels. If you want to stay really old school but have to have autococker threads, look for a Defiant. It's the exact same gun with autococker threads and the Bob Long Label. The only part that is not interchangable is the the bolt pin to accommodate the taller sight rail. They are VERY easy to work on though, and while rare there is still a lot of very nice aftermarket parts floating around for them. Vaporworks is the name of the game for a lot of the upgrades and they are still active on Facebook. Zenitram parts are also highly sought after, but the real Holy Grails are the GBR rams and Bluefork trayless kits.

BKO, commonly referred to as a "Bushmaster Knock Off" has the same general layout as a Bushmaster, but was built as a FASOR and not a true EP. They can be very nice, a lot of the good upgrades like bolts and trigger frames still work with them, but I was never a fan of the detent system they used and I "think" the ram was non-rebuildable on some models.

The Promaster is the logical conclusion of the Bushmaster. Fully EP, but they did away with the the tray and ran air tubes around inside similar to a timmy. By all accounts they are really good guns, but loose a lot of that old-school charm. I've never actually had my hands on one.

Freestyles are essentially fully pneumatic automags that use an air sear to vent the bolt. They are crazy smooth and stupid fast, but can be a complete bitch to set up correctly due to balancing the regs. They are also massive gas hogs, so make sure you are using a 68-45 and expect to refill it every game.

[Frmrspec]

They are also massive gas hogs, so make sure you are using a 68-45 and expect to refill it every game.

This is kinda funny to me nowadays because they were labeled as gas hogs from their inception (which prior to the HE bolt, they really were - 800ish shots off a 68/4500).. but the stigma stuck even after they improved the system almost immediately after release. the HE bolts yielded what has become the norm for efficiency of spools.. standard HE bolt will get you about 1200 shots off a 68/4500, the HR1 (aftermarket “unofficial” bolt that was made but violated patents so there was no official “release”) got you about 1500 off a 68/4500. But they had the same efficiency as an Ion, which was never really labeled as a “gas hog”.

Sorry, I’ll step off my soap box lol. If you can’t tell I was/am a huge fan of Freestyles

[Frmrspec]

Think I'm gonna build a few ions and pick up a bushmaster, bko, or promaster at some point

is their a difference in a bushmaster, bko, and b2k

Also what about freestyles is it worth owning one, if I remember correctly they kinda some issues

B2K/B2K2 is a traditional "Bushmaster" as people know them, the BKO was a budget bushmaster a Fasor (forward air spring return). LPR setup is wonky and not as friendly to work on. Promasters are updated Bushmasters.

Freestyles were most finicky because of a dodgy HPR and you had to "balance" the regs every time you used them because the HPR was so inconcistent. Their LPR's were pretty good tho. Freestyles had excellent ergonomics, were incredibly smooth and quiet. My favorite thing was that it seemed to have a very responsive shot, like the instant I pull the trigger, a ball was coming out of the barrel. I can't quite explain it, but similar shot feel to a DSR

Basically everything from indian creek suffered from extremely fragile wiring harnesses

[Myrkul]

Just going to throw this up here because I think it's relevant.

Scored this on Facebook for cheap, cleaned it up a lot with a basement polishing jub and tuning, added an AKA LPR (they still have stock available). All in sub $200. Paint was so small it was rolling through a 0.675 insert that day, and I still had zero barrel breaks or chops. Set the board to 10 BPS semi.

https://youtu.be/p8AzBlw24nE?si=jSEZyMQ-E1HY4pQg

[Cyberpyr8]

Pimps can be rebuilt and you can get parts for them. I did some a few years ago. Just be prepared to replace every.single.oring! But other than that, they will rip. You can get a was board and they will ramp at ludicrous speeds. Here's my journey rebuilding one. I link all the parts and stuff you need. https://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=5614225

Omens are rebuildable too (https://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=5975135) but they are more of an acquired taste. I rebuilt one of those a few years ago. They are much easier to rebuild and recently a guy put a different board in it to get it shooting 10.5. I would recommend starting with a 2.0 if you go that route.

[Magmoormaster]

ooooooh I didn't think of the omen!!! That would be a great choice for an old school electro, although upgrades are limited. But man, there are very few guns out there that are more fun to shoot. They're an absolute riot.

[Psycho91]

Wernt omens plagued with problems though the detent being the main one

[Cyberpyr8]

The 1.0's had issues but the 2.0's were definitely better. There have been a few people recently rebuilding Omens and having success getting them running.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1065526144594931

Here's mine that I sold: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EiCxnury9KQ
Versus the Pimp shooting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkAKclFOYnY

[Sneak Miester]

I have a fully functional ICD promaster

[glaman5266]

Omens are interesting paintguns. But the 2.0 is the only one worth messing with IMO. They rip & don’t kick much due to their weight. I’d recommend a semi-force feed loader for it though, as force-feed loaders may mess with the feed paddles. Egg, Halo TSA or Ricochet Apache would work well & are period-correct. Speedster or Sonic would be good modern options.

B2Ks are rock solid, as are BKOs. BKOs are cheaper but I don’t think have as many upgrades. Speaking of ICD upgrades, buying them individually may get to be a pain in the butt & also expensive. Good luck finding a trayless kit, and anything Zenitram will carry a price tag. If you’re on FB maybe hit up the ICDO group.
Between the two, I think I like BKOs better. Fewer hoses & electronics.
EDIT: And I can’t stress this enough- read the manual. They both adjust velocity differently & unless you’re running anything aftermarket inside I’d run them at the pressures stated in the manual.

Gen-E LED or LCD Matrices are fun. Most accurate & consistent paintgun I’ve ever shot was a LED with a full Aardvark Slam-Bolt kit. Amazing shooter.

Maybe a Spyder AMG? 😁

[Psycho91]

What's the going rate for a lasoya promaster these days

[Trbo323]

What's the going rate for a lasoya promaster these days

I imagine more than a hair v1 but not by a ton.

A seemingly complete but "for parts" one sold on the bay at $132 not too long ago

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