CCI phantom feel

[Gunangel]

How do people feel about the marker?

I got paintball bug again after so many years, I saved a ccm'd halfblock sniper, a working thumper, and an empire traccer, but really want to add a phantom into the gear bag.

I've had a few phantoms over the years, but they never stuck around, and I can't for the life of me remember how they felt, or why they never stayed.

In theory it is the same architecture as the traccer right? I'm just trying to see if I am looking back with rose colored glasses or if they are an acquired taste that I never appreciated.

[hot karl]

No idea about the new ones after CCI got bought out. But I've always enjoyed my CCI Phantom. I typically ran it as stock class.

What about it do you remember not liking? I bet there's a solution today for it.

My only gripes with the Phantom. Back in the day I remember the detent rings kind of sucking as a solution to roll outs. But that's fixed now with a wide variety of insert bored barrels. Or you can get older bodies updated with anti roll out detents for cheap. Or just buy a new body with them included. Of course there's always the tape, nail polish, paint, in the barrel mod.

Velocity adjustment can be annoying too. You either use the giant extendo rod tool or you have to remove the barrel and use a flat head. Not a huge problem though unless you're running Co2 and going through crazy temp swings through the day. The nylon set screws to hold the velocity adjuster in place can be a bit problematic, but a bit of blue loc-tite can fix that.

Also a trigger shoe is mandatory on a Phantom. No idea why they ever bothered selling them without. They're a $5 part though for vastly improved ergonomics. Unless you enjoy a sore finger? lol.

But yes they are a Nelson valve just like the Tracer. Not that the Tracer was a bad gun. My experience is only with the older PMI version, never used the Empire version.

I liked the Tracer, but it was the budget option. IMO it didn't have the same fit/finish as the Phantom if that's important to you. It was also sold only as an open class marker so if you wanted to play stock class you'd need to add a 12g changer and your own stick feed. Not hard to do, but the Phantom can be configured almost any way you want with readily available factory made parts.

But otherwise yeah they're gonna function and feel very similar since they're both Nelson valve guns. Both will auto trigger if you wish since that's inherent to all (as far as I am aware) Nelson valve guns.

[Chuck E Ducky]

New phantoms use an O ring on the TPC instead of the nylon grub screw. Most people don’t know how to use the grub screw properly. When using the nylon screw you take the TPC out first then tighten the nylon screw so it just enters the center bore of the bolt face. Then thread the TPC into it. The TPC will thread itself into the nylon creating the friction needed to keep the TPC from moving under playing conditions. You should only need to do this one time and it’s very effective when set up properly. No blue lock needed.

[Fossilhead]

A drilled out .22 shell changes the guns feel entirely.
if you haven't tried that. It's worth it.

[Jordan]

I've tried to like Phantoms but I can't. I think it's the pump stroke. Maybe a better undercocking kit than the ones I've tried would help?

Sheridan based pumps feel right, somehow. Can't explain it.

Also, rock forward sucks.

[Fossilhead]

I like 'em rock back with no stock.
Pop a 22 shell in the trigger frame around the cocking rod and you're approaching Sheridan territory.

Now, best of all time to me is a Sheridan p68sc. But with a bunch of work. That makes less sense than a phantom to me.

Oh, and ditch the spring around the rod.

[Cdn_Cuda]

I’ve had the same problems with Phantoms. Tried before and just didn’t click for me. I’ve always used cocker-based pumps and find them the most comfortable. I ended up with another Phantom and want to give it a try. Didn’t have a means to adjust its velocity last time so was at the field so back into the bag it went.

[chplnstone]

yet another for the 'tried 'em but naw'. *shrugs* brass has soul, and can be configured so many ways... I like nelson valves for open class pump & semi's, for stock class brass just feels right

[Chuck E Ducky]

I love my Phantoms. They take a bit to get use to but when setup properly make great pumps. I use mine exclusively for Stock Class I think that’s ware they shine best. Occasionally I will throw a 9ci off the Vert ASA on my VSC setup. My favorite thing about the Phantom is how modular they are. There is a massive aftermarket following so the setup options are limitless. Check out the Phantom showoff thread you will see some wild setups. I even have a bolt action one setup to shoot first strikes through a rifled barrel.

I will admit they are not for everyone. They are very lightweight so they can be hard for some to aim without something to shoulder. I have to run a stock on mine. I need mine to be center feed so I can use the valve body and barrel outside edge to aim. I find this not only quicker but very natural to aim. It will take a bit to get the mussel memory down coming from a Sniper setup. They point a lil different because your hand is very close to the barrel line. This makes for some very natural reactionary point shooting. With practice it’s very easy to place single shots at good distances with them just point shooting. Im definitely more accurate with my Phantom however I do use it a lot. It’s my go to marker when I want a trouble free day. They are extremely reliable set it and forget it. Super low maintenance east to maintain when need.

Biggest down side is the pump stroke is stiff. It’s smooth but stiff. Nothing like a snipers it takes some getting use to. This is why I think the Phantom shines as a stock class marker (It slows you down). The Dual Rod undercocking kit makes a world of a difference in pump stroke. It places the handle under the marker giving you a better purchase on it and allows better sighting down the barrel with the handle out of the way. I find it’s more natural to hold coming from a Sniper setup like most.

Overall the Phantom makes a great pump. It does every well, and can be setup to a player’s specific style of play. If you just play open class and have a Sniper stick with that. The sniper makes a better open class IMO. But if you’re looking for something that does a lil of everything the Phantom is great. I think they shine best when used for Stock Class play and I recommend getting a CCI Phantom over an Xtreme Velocity for now.

Keep in mind the Phantom is the sum of its parts so the more you get the more it’s worth. If you purchase one try and find one with the most options. You can always sell what you don’t need after you find what that is. Phantom bits sell easy and you can often find some good deals on packages vs trying to snag rare pieces separately.

[iamthelazerviking]

I'll always respect Phantoms and get the desire for one every now and then, but they never stick around. I love the feel of a VSC, especially no stock. Ideally an over the barrel pump handle, but even with an undercocking, I still can't seem to hit much. I've been able to get some satisfying kills, love the light weight feel of running stock class, but I much prefer the Sniper platform with constant air and a small gravity feed loader.

Open class Phantom, when set up right, is also a lot of fun. 17ci tank is as big as I'd go in that instance.

[freedom]

Also, rock forward sucks.

agree 100%...

[Grendel]

I have owned many Phantoms over the years and back in the early days my RF Bronze Phantom with a Whaler and my AGD Six-Pak was my go to Open Class marker. I moved away from pump during my tournament days in the mid to late 90s (Mag) but came back to pump in the late 90s but move to Sniper IIs. Ever sense then RF Phantoms never felt right (CF is better but still not great) but when it comes to Stock Class or Spring-feed markers the Phantom feels right. I can use over the barrel pump handles but prefer under cockers and 45 grips. In stock class form the Phantom feels right both in weight and shape. I prefer Open Class pump but when I play Stock Class or Modified Stock Class you will usually see me sporting some form of Phantom same goes for Spring-Feed.

[SignOfZeta]

A Phantom is like a Empire/PMI Trracer (Buzzard, Hammer, Spartan, Rebline) but you have to spend $200 trying to get the pump as smooth because the default setup uses that goofy undercocking rod.

IMO a CCI era Phantom is a really great stock class gun, maybe the best. When you factor in how plentiful and cheap they are, absolutely the best. Like all Nelson's they are compact and The Phantom is (historically) a very well made example of a Nelson. The frame and trigger are nice, the VSC setup is cool, I love the barrels, the internals are super nice. In Open Class Sterling and Sniper have a significant leg up, IMO, as they pump way smoother, but Snipers are a colossal PITA and cost $$$ and Sterlings are way too hard to get parts for so even as Open Class Phantoms are great.

In either case, buy a CCI era Phantom. The new stuff has caused people problems. I think at this point that's a nice way to put it.

[Psycho91]

I prefer a trracer tbh, it has a detent stock so no double feeds and if you forgot that you cocked it you can't cock it again once it's been cocked, I always found myself recocking my phantom and shooting 2 balls and it always double fed on me no matter how well I pumped it

[Chuck E Ducky]

Also the issue with the New Phantom’s are 100% the cup seal. It’s amazing that the new owners are willing to flush the Phantoms reliability reputation down the drain over a faulty cup seal they fail to admit is a the problem. It’s a what 25cent seal come on!

I have some new cup seals in the mail I’m doing some testing on that should solve everyone’s issues. I will post my results after some testing. It’s an easy fix that should be done by extreme but if they won’t we will.

HPA only face seals… lol MCB Airsmiths got you covered but for now buy a CCI Phantom and stay tuned we got a fix coming.

[The Jayster]

What kind of issues a faulty cup seal would cause? I'm asking as I'm wondering if mine might be one of those.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Erratic consistency on 12g/co2 (to soft cup seal) it wraps the area and grabs inconsistent. The harder face seals they now are producing need a lot more valve spring pressure requiring stiffer springs to seal. This causes the hammer to strike harder opening it more lowering efficiency. I also found issues with the valves choking at much lowet temperatures. I think due to the fact the valve balance is so out of wack and the lack of a regulator. The original CCI seals were the perfect balance they weren’t permeable so they didn’t swell (hard and dense enough) but soft enough to seal with a light hold valve spring. My Classic CCI valve and cup seal stock silver springs will do 42-45 shots @280fps 65-70*F with properly timed shots (real world play). Extreme changes the cup seal material twice now and it’s created problems they fail to address. I’m hoping we can get the proper material figured out. I got a batch coming from a friend I’m going to be testing out on my personal Phantom. It makes a good control tester as I know exactly what my SC Phantom dose at its current setup. If these don’t work we can always try a different material. Worst case I’m sure we have a member who knows the Phantom God himself that can steer us in the right direction. We already have the tools to punch them to size so it’s just a matter of finding the tight material now.

[The Inflicted]

Also, rock forward sucks.

I'm curious- did the gun you were trying this with have a stock or bottomline tank, or was it set up like a pistol?

[Jordan]

Bottomline tank/Micro CA II.

I get that it's more intuitive but the feedtube gets in the way. The way I shoulder a marker, I like to tuck my head in tight to the back of the marker and the feedtube hits my mask... I also hate centerfeed SC markers, I run all my SC Sheridans as sidetube setups.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Sounds like you need to try a right or left feed offsite body. ASP offered some a while ago. Revers feeds are a thing to. But coming from a Sheridan I can see how this would throw you off. That’s like back bottle for me I can’t hit dick with a back bottle. It’s like I’m hip firing. But I know people I who are ruthless with a back bottle setup Capital Dave comes to mind. He’s deadly with his BB markers. Especially when he can work off wifey. Always a good battle when thoes two are on the field together.

[Jordan]

... or I buy a Sheridan and build it the way I want. 🙂

It's ok for people to not like something. I know all the Phantom options that are available, I'm just not a fan.

[SignOfZeta]

I prefer a trracer tbh, it has a detent stock so no double feeds and if you forgot that you cocked it you can't cock it again once it's been cocked, I always found myself recocking my phantom and shooting 2 balls and it always double fed on me no matter how well I pumped it

While I certainly don't have a complaint about either of those features, providing they are %100 transparent and never get in the way at all, I don't think you're doing this right...the only way to get a double feed on an 80s gun that isn't rolling out is to pump really slow or forget what you're doing and pump it more than once. If you have a prosthetic arm or something that's one thing, in that case I apologize profusely, but assuming you're a healthy all real all American boy then this shouldn't ever be a problem.

1: move handle all the way in one direction until it stops. Do not stop before you hit the end of travel.
2: move it all the way back the other direction until it stops. Do not stop before you hit the end of travel.
3: fire (automatic upon reaching end of step 2 if AT-equipped)
4: GOTO 1

If you're having problems you're either not following this procedure or you're too slow. No human can pump a Phantom too fast so...just pump faster.

Few people need training wheels on a pump. If they're playing pump they're usually going to be paying attention. Its like plastic brakes on skateboards or how they used to put all these annoying elaborate lockout devices in cars with manual transmissions to stop them from accidentally selecting reverse and then...they pretty much stopped doing that. They eventually realized nobody buying that car needed that feature and skateboards are't supposed to not get effed up.

[SignOfZeta]

Also the issue with the New Phantom’s are 100% the cup seal. It’s amazing that the new owners are willing to flush the Phantoms reliability reputation down the drain over a faulty cup seal they fail to admit is a the problem. It’s a what 25cent seal come on!

I have some new cup seals in the mail I’m doing some testing on that should solve everyone’s issues. I will post my results after some testing. It’s an easy fix that should be done by extreme but if they won’t we will.

HPA only face seals… lol MCB Airsmiths got you covered but for now buy a CCI Phantom and stay tuned we got a fix coming.

Sadly cup seals are not the entire picture. I'm not sure if that makes the situation more or less pathetic. The 2.0 frame is the most expensive Phantom accessory ever and has the hidden bonus feature of being incompatible with CO2, which is still a VERY popular air choice for Phantom people. That product sucks you in but in the end just sucks. The seal issue and the lack of testing on the 2.0 frame point to a pretty serious lack of customer service skill and also in diagnostic due diligence. Those two issues combined...make me worry about what their next super cool new update is, knowwhatimean?

The cool thing is that seals are easily made in other ways and there are about 42,000+ "real" Phantoms out there still. The Phantom was around before EV arrived and it will be around after they leave, even if only as an antique.

[Chuck E Ducky]

You call it expensive but when you factor in the parts it replaces it’s a +$20 option. The issue is not the expense it’s the fact it don’t work on anything but HPA. I have one and I have some ideas to make it work. (It needs more volume behind the valve) but I have yet to test my theory, unfortunately it should be extreme testing and tuning. The ideas are school and in the right direction unfortunately they are Poorly executed and they haven’t fixed or addressed the issues. They chose to make excuses instead. That is just bad business in IMO. They should reach out to the community whoever they are using isn’t helping them any. They need to except responsibility and work the problem. Excuses just piss customers off.

[The Jayster]

I own 2: a 100% stock CCI-era OC Phantom and a EV custom-built OC Phantom. My last pump gun before that was an Empire Sniper with Inception Designs parts. Yes, compared to my Sniper the Phantom's pump stroke is stiffer, but not by any order of magnitude. When I received my EV Phantom I was pleasantly surprised as I expected the pump stroke to be much stiffer. As Chuck E Ducky mentioned, some people absolutely need a stock to aim properly and I'm among those. I've had minor issues with mine where the TPC would move around when shooting, and then a bout of high velocity. Once you learn how the gun works and you're familiar with its innards, the fixes are very easy. It is super reliable, very easy to service and very-well made. Love'em!