1st Major Marker Release of 2021!

[iamthelazerviking]

Soooo cringey

[Trbo323]

Are they expecting you to walk the trigger on a mechanical stbb?

Maybe that guard is designed for fisting? (Pulling the trigger with your whole fist)

Or just for extra room when you inevitably throw the marker for distance?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[glaman5266]

Trbo323 Looks like a foregrip substitute to me.

I really don't wanna stick up for an overpriced STBB or HK Army, but y'all starting to sound like a bunch of PbN'ers. Yeah, the video is cringey, the marker is overpriced, it's HK Army, it's not really needed, it doesn't "look" the greatest (subjective), it's not something that most people would buy. Definitely not the regular players who know their stuff.

But this is simply just another option for people to consider. Options are good, right? Hoseless is a thing now. It's very marketable. Not to mention that people are starting to go back to the fields again. I don't see Tippmann or Kingman coming up with something new, or even advertising in general. And HK Army is a brand associated with high level play, so even at that "crazy" price point I wouldn't be surprised if they sold quite a few of these to newer players who've heard of HK. That, coupled with the Emek price hikes, could make for some decent sales. Remember, some masks and loaders top $200. THAT is a crazy price point, at least for loaders.

Again, I ain't sticking up for HK. It is pricey considering what Azodin offers at their price points and Kingman have for the super low-end. And I don't care for HK in the least. But I'm interested in seeing how these sell.

[Ecapnation]

Ooooh we got an HK fanboy here.... Burn the witch!

[glaman5266]

Hahahaha, nope. Competition and options are good things though.

[The Inflicted]

Trbo323 Looks like a foregrip substitute to me.

I really don't wanna stick up for an overpriced STBB or HK Army, but y'all starting to sound like a bunch of PbN'ers. Yeah, the video is cringey, the marker is overpriced, it's HK Army, it's not really needed, it doesn't "look" the greatest (subjective), it's not something that most people would buy. Definitely not the regular players who know their stuff.

But this is simply just another option for people to consider. Options are good, right? Hoseless is a thing now. It's very marketable. Not to mention that people are starting to go back to the fields again. I don't see Tippmann or Kingman coming up with something new, or even advertising in general. And HK Army is a brand associated with high level play, so even at that "crazy" price point I wouldn't be surprised if they sold quite a few of these to newer players who've heard of HK. That, coupled with the Emek price hikes, could make for some decent sales. Remember, some masks and loaders top $200. THAT is a crazy price point, at least for loaders.

Again, I ain't sticking up for HK. It is pricey considering what Azodin offers at their price points and Kingman have for the super low-end. And I don't care for HK in the least. But I'm interested in seeing how these sell.

I do like some things about the SABR, like the general styling and the clear markings on the velocity adjuster, but the the gun is just plain overpriced. Both the Azodin Kaos and Spyder Xtra offer the same performance but with proper foregrips and aluminum feednecks and grip frames for less money. Plus the Spyder has that neat ultra-efficient valve of theirs.

If the SABR were $90 or so it would be easier to recommend.

[glaman5266]

Agreed. Some nice features, but overpriced.

I didn’t know The Spyder valves were changed. Or is it aftermarket? Interesting.

[The Inflicted]

Spyder started putting the Eko valve in all their guns starting around 2012.

It's a simplification of the balance valves they tried with the VS series, where there's a dedicated recocking port instead of a big flat on the cupseal stem.

[glaman5266]

Ah, I've heard of that valve. Didn't realize it was that long ago they started putting it in everything. But it was just yesterday PE released the first Gmek, so..... You can tell what time I'm stuck in, lol.

[Trbo323]

I really don't wanna stick up for an overpriced STBB or HK Army, but y'all starting to sound like a bunch of PbN'ers. Yeah, the video is cringey, the marker is overpriced, it's HK Army, it's not really needed, it doesn't "look" the greatest (subjective), it's not something that most people would buy. Definitely not the regular players who know their stuff.

But then the only group left is the ignorant and/or new players and the hk fanboys. So if they make a product that is only aimed at taking advantage of people my question is, how are you supporting this?

Now granted, I don't think hk is just trying to rip people off but this marker but to me it just says they are so disconnected from the entry level market they are targeting that they don't even understand those players budgets. They seem to think that their name and moving a hose is worth doubling the price

But this is simply just another option for people to consider. Options are good, right?

Two problems
1) aids or cancer? Just because it's an option, doesn't mean it's a good one

2) although I do understand what you are getting at but let's say I buy this, I want to put an on/off asa on it. Can't do it. Regulator for more consistent input? Nope, drop forward because my child is small? Nopitty nope. Granted MAYBE the aftermarket will make parts (I really doubt it) but they really limited your options after you buy it to basically a different barrel.

Hoseless is a thing now. It's very marketable. Not to mention that people are starting to go back to the fields again. I don't see Tippmann or Kingman coming up with something new, or even advertising in general.

You kidding? Have you not seen tippmanns line up through the last few years? They have a magfeed blowback in their lineup now. Granted spyder is somewhat being edged out by azodin so spyder is really not doing much (although back up the clock about 5-6 years and spyder was releasing magfeed stuff before it was "cool" and actually dropped a few of those designs before magfeed really caught on, the hammer 7 on the used market sells for above it's new retail all the time) azodin on the other hand has been releasing new stuff and it's honestly pushing the stbb design. Some of their stuff is good value, some has extra features and I would consider is overpriced but they didn't lose touch with their base either and released the centurion far around $50, some sites had them at $45 even.

And HK Army is a brand associated with high level play, so even at that "crazy" price point I wouldn't be surprised if they sold quite a few of these to newer players who've heard of HK. That, coupled with the Emek price hikes, could make for some decent sales. Remember, some masks and loaders top $200. THAT is a crazy price point, at least for loaders.

The problem to me is the difference in audience. Their high end stuff (which is a lot of rebrands for the most part) is aimed at the "I'm a tourny wannabe l33t bro!" Crowd, who, if they are too lazy to do some research, whatever, their loss, that crowd knows where to find good information.

The new players don't, they haven't made those connections yet. So they don't even know that a $70 azodin kaos exists and if they think $130 is the cheapest you can realistically go, that then eats away at money that can go to a better mask, hopper, tank etc.

So to me, this marker is basically taking advantage of new player ignorance which is why I'm not a fan.


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[glaman5266]

But then the only group left is the ignorant and/or new players and the hk fanboys. So if they make a product that is only aimed at taking advantage of people my question is, how are you supporting this?

Now granted, I don't think hk is just trying to rip people off but this marker but to me it just says they are so disconnected from the entry level market they are targeting that they don't even understand those players budgets. They seem to think that their name and moving a hose is worth doubling the price

They may be trying to charge a bit more than they should and I agree that they're disconnected with the entry level market. But I hardly think they're outright scamming anyone. False advertising & claims are scams. Smart Parts is a prime example of this. If HK sells something that is indeed functional and offers a "hoseless" feature that people may (or may not) want then I have no problem with it's presence in the market.

2) although I do understand what you are getting at but let's say I buy this, I want to put an on/off asa on it. Can't do it. Regulator for more consistent input? Nope, drop forward because my child is small? Nopitty nope. Granted MAYBE the aftermarket will make parts (I really doubt it) but they really limited your options after you buy it to basically a different barrel.

Why upgrade a low end with the way the market has changed in the last 10 years? I see what you're saying, but the aftermarket is practically dead nowadays with many paintguns coming with pretty much everything you need fresh out the box. Someone who buys this (or a Victor, Xtra, Kaos, Cronus, whatever) is likely not going to add anything other than a barrel. And as time goes on they're either gonna upgrade to a better marker or leave the sport. I don't see any incentive for any company to make anything aftermarket for the low ends these days.

You kidding? Have you not seen tippmanns line up through the last few years? They have a magfeed blowback in their lineup now. Granted spyder is somewhat being edged out by azodin so spyder is really not doing much (although back up the clock about 5-6 years and spyder was releasing magfeed stuff before it was "cool" and actually dropped a few of those designs before magfeed really caught on, the hammer 7 on the used market sells for above it's new retail all the time) azodin on the other hand has been releasing new stuff and it's honestly pushing the stbb design. Some of their stuff is good value, some has extra features and I would consider is overpriced but they didn't lose touch with their base either and released the centurion far around $50, some sites had them at $45 even.

No, I'm not. The Cronus was released in 2013 and the TMC in 2016. That's hardly in the last few years. The TCR and TiPX are so niche I'm not counting those. The Stormer is the only new thing they have, and it's a Cronus with a magwell. Magfed is niche in an already niche sport. And GI is really just sitting on Spyder at the moment.

Azodin, like you said, is pushing the STBB design and I commend them. I believe they're a good value and think they probably make the best-performing low end paintguns out there. And their higher end offerings (relative to their lineup) are nothing to scoff at. Azodin is worthy of a bigger spotlight in the low end market. But standing in the way is the largest conglomerate in paintball: GI.

The problem to me is the difference in audience. Their high end stuff (which is a lot of rebrands for the most part) is aimed at the "I'm a tourny wannabe l33t bro!" Crowd, who, if they are too lazy to do some research, whatever, their loss, that crowd knows where to find good information.

The new players don't, they haven't made those connections yet. So they don't even know that a $70 azodin kaos exists and if they think $130 is the cheapest you can realistically go, that then eats away at money that can go to a better mask, hopper, tank etc.

Tippmann and Spyder still have brand recognition (Tippmann especially) and control a large amount of the low end market despite not really releasing anything new aside from the Stormer. Not to mention how much of the market GI currently has. People do/will see their prices. I don't really see HK making a huge dent in that market.

So to me, this marker is basically taking advantage of new player ignorance which is why I'm not a fan.

I get what you're saying, and to an extent they probably are. But it's not to the extent that Smart Parts pulled years ago, so I have no issue with it's presence in the market. People will either buy it or they won't, depending on if it offers something they want. It's just another option, good or bad. I don't necessarily want it to succeed. I'm just interested in seeing how this pans out.

In red.

[Euphie]

I mean I am not gonna be nearly as verbose about it but yeah, I don’t like it because it just seems like a cash grab aimed at people who don’t know better.

I am not a STBB hater but, this is just hard to justify. I also remember cheap markers like the Eradicator that ended up driving new people out by being so bad when for very close in price they could have had a much nicer spyder that might have made them stick around.

[MrBarraclough]

I don't object to the SABR being on the market. I just think it adds nothing of real value. At $130, it is too close to the eNMEy's price point to challenge the latter for the title of best value in the sub-$200 market.

As much as I loathe the Gardners and wouldn't touch a Shocker or DLX for that reason, I am admittedly hypocritical with respect to GoG. The eNMEy is such a good value in the entry level market that I often recommend it to new players, especially kids. I just can't bring myself to ask a kid to either pay substantially more for a marker or settle for less marker for the money for the sake of a grudge I carry over something that happened before the kid was born. I hate feeling like the bastards have gotten one over on me, but in terms of the technical merits of the eNMEy and its price point I just cannot ignore it when some kid shows up on Reddit asking for recommendations to fit his shoestring budget.

[Trbo323]

I have a hard time recommending the gog stuff from a reliability standpoint. Yes I'm probably still bias from the sp days but even still, I have just not been impressed with how their stuff ages. Seems like every time they tweek the design the parts for the previous design all vanish and a bunch of players are left with unfixable markers

That aside, no I don't think hk is actively scheming to rip players off, I think they have just got a little too caught up in their own ... Propaganda machine? And are buying into their own hype. Probably listening to the opinions of hk fanboys over the customers they are hoping to win over.

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[Cyberpyr8]

A guy at our field had one of these SABR versions and it lived up to the (low) expectations. First of all, it sounds like a cannon. I am not exaggerating, it is one of the loudest guns I have ever heard on the field. He was shooting at me and I knew when he went to the other side of the field because I could hear him shooting everywhere. He had the bolt come out at one point during a game and had to fix that. Granted that could be user error but still, he is a grown man and not some kid that will tinker with a gun. He said it wasn't very accurate with the Proshar paint we were using. I was using it in my Emek and had no issues but he couldn't get it to shoot straight with the stock barrel. He also mentioned that the trigger wasn't very comfortable. That's probably somewhat personal preference but out of the box he thought it needed to be adjusted. Sad to see that HK is selling this thing as the low end.

I agree that the GOG is better for a little more. I really don't like Gog's (yeah I know I own one) but they are good for loaning to someone or using against inexperienced rentals. For the price it isn't a terrible starter gun. I told this guy to get the Gog or Emek but he went cheap. I suspect he'll end up showing up with an Axe or mini in a few weeks since he wasn't happy with it for the most part.

[Dusty Bottoms]

I think it's funny how big a deal this is to some of you! I can't even recall how many crap budget guns some kid brought to my local fields over the past twenty years that were hot garbage. I even saw a group show up with the original Talon pumps once back in '98. I've seen countless Spyders and their clones, JT Tac-5's, you name it, show up and just not work or crap out after a couple games. Half of this was due to piss poor maintenance by noobs, but some of it was just shoddy design and production qc just to make a fast buck. Just read the advertising on budget markers of the late 90's and early 00's, it's hilarious. Their like literal snake oil ads from the old West.

Beginners often cut their teeth on budget, crappy markers, unless they have a passion for research on Youtube, Reddit, forums, etc, which is rare. Nowadays at least they have alot more resources to research a purchase than we did years ago. A couple months ago a nice guy showed up at my field with a mint looking Syder TL, blue and all blinged out in chrome. He had bought it off Craigslist and took it to play. I'm sure it still had it's original orings, and it didn't work for a single game. Even if it had worked, he actually thought what he was using was on par with the electros, Emek's, and mags that us regulars were using because his Spyder looked all fancy. He just didn't know any better, but we helped him out. This is unfortunately just how most beginners learn. It's often the same in other hobbies. If you enjoy the game and have a passion, then you won't mind the learning curve.

[Cyberpyr8]

20 years ago this wasn't a problem but today as the younger generations would rather play COD on a screen rather than go to a field and pay money to go play paintball, we want to do everything we can to encourage players to have a good experience. They don't have the patience to fiddle with a gun all day. Sure I bought a few guns that were total junk. But kids today aren't going to come back. I've seen kids get frustrated with rental guns that didn't perform well and just sit out. I was just letting people know that they might want to avoid telling people to go out and buy these things. Like I said below, I would recommend a Tippmann before I would tell someone to go get one of these.

[Magmoormaster]

It seems a lot of you don't realize how much prices have gone up across the board.

Azodin Kaos's are now $169.
GoG eNMey's are $200
Tippmann Chronus base models are $130
Tippmann Stormer base models are $140

Not saying that this Sabr isn't overpriced, but it's not nearly as much of a sham as y'all are making it out to be.

[Cyberpyr8]

Honestly, I don't even think as much as the price, the issues this guy had don't bode well for anyone trying to get into paintball cheap. Fortunately, for him he's been playing for a while (and a working adult with his wife and kids also playing) so he will just upgrade to a better gun but for younger players or people on a strict budget, it could mean that they buy it, it breaks or underperforms and they don't keep playing. Years ago that was not uncommon but today with other guns in that price range (give or take $50) there's much better options. I would recommend the Chronus or Stormer over this thing. At least I would feel better knowing the gun will almost certainly work out of the box. I don't think the SABR is overpriced as much as it seems cheaply built.

[kevin qmto]

A guy at our field had one of these SABR versions and it lived up to the (low) expectations. First of all, it sounds like a cannon. I am not exaggerating, it is one of the loudest guns I have ever heard on the field. He was shooting at me and I knew when he went to the other side of the field because I could hear him shooting everywhere. He had the bolt come out at one point during a game and had to fix that. Granted that could be user error but still, he is a grown man and not some kid that will tinker with a gun. He said it wasn't very accurate with the Proshar paint we were using. I was using it in my Emek and had no issues but he couldn't get it to shoot straight with the stock barrel. He also mentioned that the trigger wasn't very comfortable. That's probably somewhat personal preference but out of the box he thought it needed to be adjusted.

Yeah several points I'd just like to address here:

The bolt pin is held in place with a flat head cap, a spring, and ball bearing. From working at a store that sold the recent mech Spyder line, I've seen that occasionally I'll take one out of the box and notice the bolt pin moves out of locked position a little too easily, and I'll tighten the screw down a half turn and then its golden. Obviously a newer player wouldn't know to do this.

Main thing I take issue with his experience is when he says its "inaccurate". Ok, was it inaccurate all the time? Was it just after breaking paint and haphazardly cleaning it? How oily was the paint? And how was the inside of his loader and barrel? was it coated in paint grease? Because if so, then no marker will shoot as straight as it ought to. I'd tell him to dump each bag of paint into a fresh pillowcase (after shaking it vigorously to remove as much lint as possible) wipe the paint down, and dump the balls into large ziploc bags for storage. a clean blowback with grease free paint should be every bit as accurate as anything else.

Trigger adjustment? well since that's not really a thing on 99% of blowbacks I don't know how to respond to that. Sure some of them have a little too much pre-post travel, but I think what newer players aren't used to is that sudden build up of trigger pressure when it comes to releasing the hammer off the sear, and that simply can't go away, its just part of the design.

as far as it being loud, I'd try a more ported barrel. HK haven't said anywhere what threads they used on this marker. i'd assume cocker, but Air Challenger stated they make both Spyder and Cocker threaded versions of the Eagle-Claw.

[Cyberpyr8]

The bolt only came lose once and was never a problem again. But I have 6 kids and I know my kids would have somehow lost the bolt! He fixed in game and it was fine. Just something to be careful with.

The trigger is subjective. I think there's a travel setting and he mentioned needing to set it differently to get it to hit better. It can be adjusted I believe so that's not as critical.

As far as the paint goes, I was using the same paint and even gave him one of my pods during a game. The game he was shooting at me he literally had them going from side to side almost every shot. I was watching him shoot at me and watching them curve about 30-40 feet out. I think out of 10-15 shots he sent my way, only 2-3 went somewhat straight. It was bad.

I was using my Emek with ID barrel at 687 or 689 and mine were having no issues. This was early on so I don't think he had a dirty barrel or broken paint in it at that point. The rental guns were all shooting the same stuff and they were doing fine. He was the only one having issues with it. It was hot and humid but we all were in the same conditions. He had bought the paint that morning so it was fresher than mine that I brought back from 2 weeks before. I bought some paint later and that's one of the pods I gave him. So same exact stuff I was using. Probably a barrel match thing but just pointing out the issues.

I didn't intend to bash it but it looks like a cheaper gun and it ends up being just that. I was really hoping that it was going to be a good working gun that was low maintenance. It would be great to be able to recommend something smaller than a Tippmann to new players in that price range. I was excited when I saw he had it and immediately went to see how it he liked it. His early excitement turned to disappointment by the middle of the day. The last thing he said to me about it was that he would probably go ahead and buy something better. I suggested keeping it as a backup to his kids guns. I just thought I would put it out there to warn people before recommending it.

[The Inflicted]

It seems a lot of you don't realize how much prices have gone up across the board.

Azodin Kaos's are now $169.
GoG eNMey's are $200
Tippmann Chronus base models are $130
Tippmann Stormer base models are $140

Not saying that this Sabr isn't overpriced, but it's not nearly as much of a sham as y'all are making it out to be.

The Spyder Victor, which I think is a much closer equivalent to the SABR, is still $80.