1st Major Marker Release of 2021!

[Fubarius]

My experience was quite different working at a shop. A significant portion of it's business was the selling and installing of aftermarket accessories. Heck, the guy who owned the place would sell certain guns A COST (DM3 for example) since he knew he'd make more money accessorizing it down the line. It was when the local players attitudes changed from "aftermarket accessories are cool" to "aftermarket accessories are for newbs" that business began to drop. Definitely contributed to the place going out of business. (there were other factors of course, but this post WILL be too long as it is 😉).

And I'm all for guns performing better out of the box. Better efficiency, more reliability, easier maintenance, all great! Yes, more of that. But that's NOT what we're talking about. We're talking about Just Another BlowBack. I'm assuming no major redesign in valve design, or bolt/hammer configuration. I'm speaking SPECIFICALLY about the ASA and grip frame.

Seriously, I don't see it. Why is this....


...a better design than this...



???

Both basic blowbacks. Let's assume similar build quality (though history gives the Azodin a bit of an edge of course), lets assume similar shot performance and efficiency. Let's momentarily ignore the better top cocking quick strip bolt on the Azodin (seriously blowback designers, it's such an OBVIOUS feature). I'm talking just the stuff below the bottom tube. Please, explain to someone who seriously does NOT get it, why on earth you'd choose the top one over the bottom?

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

Id choose the top one. Mount a feedtube on top (regular stock class size, maybe spring feed it). 6-4inch barrel. With 6in, i can have freak bored, or i could just run one of docs tips on on a freak back. Lastly id need to figure out how to power it. 3.5oz brass eagle tank wouldn't be to bad as it is, but id prefer it point the other way. Id need to figure how id want it positioned forward but its definitely not that tricky. My other alternative is mounting a quick changer. With That, i have lots of options.

[Axel]

Objectively you are right, of course. It's more or less a fashion trend. Why does Old Navy redesign the same basic tube sock every year? Beats me.

[Magmoormaster]

If we are in fact ignoring the build quality and features you mentioned (Azodin's cocker threaded barrel and metal feedneck being important ones IMO), I probably would choose the top over the bottom because hoseless guns are so much more convenient. Not so much that hoses can snag stuff, but disassembly is easier and you don't have to worry about macro fittings leaking. I've had Azodins, eNMey's, and later Spyders have hoses leak out of the box. Simple fix yes, but not a great look when you put air on a gun to demo for a customer and it doesn't work. Not going to be an issue with a hoseless gun. Of course that depends on construction, but when done properly it's a very nice feature to have.

The point of the guns being better out of the box thing is that, back in the day, people were incentived to upgrade their guns. I don't think people WANTED to upgrade guns, so much as the HAD to. It became a "for newbs" thing because guns became good out the box, and upgrading them frequently decreased their performance. It was something newbs did because they were conned by store owners wanting to make money selling accessories. Even before the time when guns didn't actually need upgrades, half of them didn't do what they claimed to. Barrels, bolts, expansion chambers, volumizers (in some contexts), all lies to make money.

It's more likely that a player will stay in the sport if they buy a gun that's plug and play than buy a gun and then be forced to dump a bunch of money into. Besides, the margins on most of the accessories were garbage anyway. It's better for players to spend their money actually playing than not playing so they can buy a barrel kit. And again, 90% of players just want a gun that works so they can play. Most people who play paintball might play a couple times a year. That's who these guns are for in the first place, not the modders. They can buy a cocker.

Looking at it from a totally different angle, you kinda nailed it with the "Just another blowback" line. They have to differentiate it from everything else, or there's no reason to bring it to market in the first place.

[Pyrate Jim]

It might be all right. Certainly at the low end price point for younger/newer players.
Personally, I think it's fugly, like a high school freshmans first attempt at 3d printing.

[nobbie333]

No one has mentioned that it uses Spyder threads
most new barrel are autococker threaded
also I think that barrel looks very similar to planet eclipse stock barrel

[kevin qmto]

No one has mentioned that it uses Spyder threads
most new barrel are autococker threaded
also I think that barrel looks very similar to planet eclipse stock barrel

Actually according to Air Challenger, they sell a cocker threaded version. It's on their website.

[Arthur]

How do these people even stay in business.

[Magmoormaster]

How do these people even stay in business.

Because THEY MAKE IT POWERFUL!!

[Toestr]

How do these people even stay in business.

Probably contract work. Making guns/parts for other manufacturers when not doing/licensing in house designs. Lots of overseas companies also just do general manufacturing, not just manufacturing in a specific field.

ICD does something similar (but obviously at a higher quality). They also do quite a bit of prototyping.

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[The Inflicted]

It's like déjà vu all over again.

[Mr. Hick]

This dude is far to excited for a newly improved Spyder.

[MrBarraclough]

That's a very polite way of saying "coked out of his gourd."

[glaman5266]

Huh. This is the first time I’ve seen this thread. How the heck did I miss this? lol

I like that trigger frame design. Prolly cramped as hell like the Mini/Axe (I have big hands), but I think that’s a good way to make the STBB platform more compact. I kinda like it. With a 45/45k or smaller on the back that would be a light & tight little blowback.

[Siress]

Is it?
I haven't seen any pictures or videos of it out in the wild.

stealth


Is anyone else going to point out how we went from this:

to, "patented hidden microline so as not to cramp your style, bro"


Is CO2 just a thing of the past? I kind of like that I can get so many shots out of one tank of it...though the pressure fluctuations w/ temp is annoying.

[Seajay]

It's a Spyder valve, so by design they can shoot Co2 or HPA. The only factor is the O-Ring on the Air side of the valve which is normally Polyurethane, which works a bit better with the cold.

Co2 gets used more than you think, just most bigger fields don't carry it anymore.

[Toestr]

Grabbed these form ANS gear's instagram story.

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[Ecapnation]

So it's an overpriced blowback with no regulator being marketed by HK is amazing new technology and yet it's been available overseas as the Orion for like what two years now

[Trbo323]

So it's an overpriced blowback with no regulator being marketed by HK is amazing new technology and yet it's been available overseas as the Orion for like what two years now

You sound surprised by this

Also, is that just macro hose?

Yeah I don't understand why anyone would buy this

Azodin and spyder are already established and already making stbbs

And theirs are HALF the price

Why would anyone buy this?

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[iamthelazerviking]

Because mustache man's brand logo is on it.

[Ecapnation]

No but they typically cater to the high end hype idiots......not entry-level.

Let's see how the spin this crap.