On Monetizing Paintball

[Trbo323]

There's many many problems with mainstream, professional paintball

Here are some of them!

1) it's not relatable to people who don't play it. Idk about you guys but I don't shoot close to a case of paint for one point and my team doesn't go through a whole pallet in a weekend. My markers also don't cost on average $1500

The fix as I see it is limited paint. There was some talk of limiting the whole team when they went onto the field and I think that's smart. Just count the number of pods at the starting box. If there's too many. Pull one player, the teams will get the message real fast. Adapt or die


2) in that same vein. When I go play, even if I am playing with my own team, we all don't have the same marker. Hell look at any rec field, if you exclude the rental players you are lucky if 3 people have the same marker on any side before a game starts.

The fix: I've said this before but I would love to see some mixing of the formats. 1 speedball marker, 2 mechanical, 2 pumps for a 5 man team. And more than that, change it between events. Next event. Everyone has to shoot a autococker. Adapt or die

I think this one can also really help the industry as a whole. There's a lot of good companies out there that never get any recognition because they don't make a $1500 tournament electro. If pumps were required, companies like Nova could get their markers on a professional field with an audience

3) each game I play has different tactics. This is the largest reason I will shut off a paintball game I've been watching. I can watch about 10 points and then it just starts looking like it's on repeat. It's just do they use the snake or the Doritos side to move up the field? That's all.

The fix. Get creative with the fields. First off the teams never get to know the format in advance. Maybe it's hyperball one weekend, structures the next maybe it's a mash up of different field styles after that. Adapt or die

There's more on my mind but that's all I have time for right now but in general, it really needs to come back to the roots. I think it can be way more popular and get more viewers if it's just more relatable to the experience players have going to any random field

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[boomersruckus]

Back in the early 2000's there was an event indoors that had a very large black curtain that dropped down between the 2 halves of the field. Teams on each side of that curtain were able to move bunkers to where they wanted them before the curtain was raised. I only ever heard about that happening one time and if I am not mistaken, it was in a Paintball2extreme magazine. That would be a hoot these days.


Still, making the game more interesting for the players doesnt mean it will be more entertaining to the masses. Mixed markers per team would be fun. Throw in a real long field and a first strike dude in the back. 1 electro, 1 mech, 2 pumps, and a first strike. lmao.

[martix_agent]

Back in the early 2000's there was an event indoors that had a very large black curtain that dropped down between the 2 halves of the field. Teams on each side of that curtain were able to move bunkers to where they wanted them before the curtain was raised. I only ever heard about that happening one time and if I am not mistaken, it was in a Paintball2extreme magazine. That would be a hoot these days.


Still, making the game more interesting for the players doesnt mean it will be more entertaining to the masses. Mixed markers per team would be fun. Throw in a real long field and a first strike dude in the back. 1 electro, 1 mech, 2 pumps, and a first strike. lmao.

That format would really suck to play in a tournament, but would be a blast in rec play!

Didn't the woodsball leage try something like your second idea? It looked like fun.

[Trbo323]

Back in the early 2000's there was an event indoors that had a very large black curtain that dropped down between the 2 halves of the field. Teams on each side of that curtain were able to move bunkers to where they wanted them before the curtain was raised. I only ever heard about that happening one time and if I am not mistaken, it was in a Paintball2extreme magazine. That would be a hoot these days.


Still, making the game more interesting for the players doesnt mean it will be more entertaining to the masses. Mixed markers per team would be fun. Throw in a real long field and a first strike dude in the back. 1 electro, 1 mech, 2 pumps, and a first strike. lmao.

Please tell me there's footage of that somewhere, I really want to see how it plays out.

This is kind of what I was talking about though. As an audience member if you heard channel A was a NXL event and channel B was this curtain format, at this point which are you watching?

Maybe the curtain format gets old after a few events fine, if the organizers have the testicular fortitude to try something else then it can still be interesting. Maybe next week some of the bunkers are put on turntables that slowly turn them. Get a bunch of junkyard cars, have a have around Halloween? All the bunkers are inflatable Halloween decorations.

Does anyone remember the show American gladiator? If you don't go look it up, really interesting show back in the 90s but I think one of the main reasons why it was so fun to watch is they had a variety of games/contests but you the watcher never knew which ones they were going to use each week and even though they did repeat, they only had so many, it was still really interesting to watch because it wasn't the same thing week after week

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[boomersruckus]

Those tennis ball cannons were the best. Watching the Gladiators use their far more stable and controllable turret mounted launcher against the contestants hand held launchers was a blast.

[The Hobbit]

I love the idea of varying game styles for a rec “beer” league. Put a team together and once a week at the local field you go and play your 30 minute game. Each week would be a different objective or utilizing a different field. Do that for 5-6 weeks then do a mini tournament with seeding based off of “regular” season performance. I’m all in for that.

I like the idea of limited paint per point, each team gets 20 pods to divvy up as they see fit. Small changes like that I feel would be better than being American gladiator with paintball guns.

Honestly a regional youth league, ran similarly to other youth sports, may be a driver of building interest. That way a child competing gets to play 10-12 tournaments a year against other kids his age level, with a smaller travel radius. I don’t think money would be an issue, parents dump thousands into hockey and other travel sports for their kids. There just needs to be an argument as to why paintball is a valid alternative/option to these other established sports.

[Axel]

Televised paintball was tried and it failed. There's no special set of rules you can come up with that will appeal to tournament players, manufacturers, and viewers.

[uv_halo]

I've got a somewhat different take on this.

Stop trying to make the game for television.

Paintball will do its best when it is sold and structured as an experience. Develop and implement multiple ways to win a match beyond the typical elimination or, capture the flag mechanic. The gameplay itself has to be varied- i.e. multiple projectiles, props, etc. The bottom line, it's an experience. Properly done, this would give a run for the money of any of those multiplayer VR experience businesses (i.e. Warpoint) because we can engage all of the senses (to include impact). The VR multiplayer experience should be left for those that are paintball pain-averse and, don't want to get dirty.

Experiences are meant to be experienced, not watched. Occasionally, a fun experience can be watched but it depends on the folks experiencing it. A good example would be that Discovery channel show Special Ops Mission where the 'player' was a funny and interesting character (Wil Willis) who provided a lot of narration and background to his POV.

[fullofpaint]

I think this is a big issue even for walk on play. I don't remember the last time I played at a field where the objective was anything beyond straight up elimination. The most variation is one field that does a centerfield flag flipper which is really just a way to get everyone to waste their paint.

But most of the best games I played when I was starting out were times when we snuck into a base and managed to run the flag back in the nick of time or something like that.

[uv_halo]

fullofpaint I routinely played at a park known as Warplay Paintball with most of the other players being new, college-age folks. Each field was set around a loose central theme, and had different rule sets. A common rule was re-spawns with attackers respawning more often than the defenders. they also allowed full auto and, their rental gun was an A-5 with RT. For example, the bridge field had a 'river' (dry, shallow, ravine) cutting the field laterally, The river could only be crossed via the bridge. The attackers had to win by crossing the bridge, and retrieving a flag, within the game's time limit. The defenders win by denying the attackers.

Another field (a longer, mostly rectanglular field) was where they conducted VIP rescue where a smaller number of rescuers (attackers) had to escort the VIP to the recovery zone, which was closer to the enemy's (defenders) starting area. One shot on the VIP is a victory for the enemy.

Yet another field was small, and mostly isometric with a low (no more than 3') octagon (Maybe 8ft across) with the two lengthwise sides (relative to the field) missing. The respawns and team sizes were balanced, and the way to win the game was to get a person into the octagon and stay there for something like two minutes, or have possession at the end of the match. This was usually at the end of the day, as you can imagine that it burns paint.

The reffing was top notch (with each ref issued a shield), even though the majority of them were teens.

With the economic downturn, they pivoted to the Open Source, MilSpec based laser tag model and, they run laser tag scenarios like the above.

[Trbo323]

Televised paintball was tried and it failed. There's no special set of rules you can come up with that will appeal to tournament players, manufacturers, and viewers.

Screw the manufacturers then. All you really need is decent camera coverage and a format that can make sense to the average viewer. It's way more interesting to watch when there's a bunch of different markers on the field anyway, let the players choose what they want to shoot.

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[Morgenstern]

If you ignore the industry it would free you from the whole format they’re pushing, which has zero mainstream appeal. You could mimic the original paintball game that captured people’s imaginations. Get a wacky group with diversified backgrounds, give ‘em a 007, and turn them loose in a few hundred acres with multiple flags to collect. But then, that’s more a show like Survivor than what paintball has become. It also sounds like a blast. I wouldn’t even want to watch a speedball game on tv if I was in it. Camera angles, beautifully shot, the works. It’s still boring and would certainly be boring to someone not personally involved in paintball.

[Mr.Rush]

I remember there being a 2v2 indoor tournament series back in the day that was similar to the 1v1 format you're suggesting. It was played on something similar to a racket ball court. I think Evil sponsored it.

[DocsMachine]

One thing everyone forgets about trying to televise PB; You can't follow the paint.

It's that simple. In hockey, baseball and football, you have a single object to follow. It's also large and moves comparatively slowly.

But in paintball, you have a tiny ball, moving 200MPH. Even in 4K, all you see are the occasional streaks, and a hit is a "blink and you missed it" thing. Besides that, in a 3v3, there's six different paths to follow- TV can't do that.

To most people, a video of paintball is boring because all you really see are guys standing behind some sort of barricade, rowing their trigger fingers. Occasionally they run, and for some reason, while they're running, they stop, rise their hand, and walk away.

In football, we can watch the quarterback get sacked. In basketball, we can see the ball get dunked. In baseball, we can see the batter swing for a home run.

In paintball, except for a few very shallow angles, the average viewer really can't follow the paint, and in something like a 3v3, you're trying to keep track of six players at once.

Hockey? You can ignore everyone who isn't carrying the puck. Paintball? You have to watch six guys- or more- rowing their trigger fingers at each other. And hope the camera is in the right place, at the right angle, to catch the 15-millisecond-long hit.

THAT is why PB on TV will never go anywhere.

Doc.

[Trbo323]

I think being able to see where each marker is aiming would be a great help to the average viewer. Expensive to implement but possible

I disagree that it's absolutely necessary though. I was watching some pro ball last night actually and I have to say it's come a long way. They are now using a drone for a lot of overhead shots and had a camera mounted up somewhere really high that it could see the whole field. Then they would just put a number on each bunker that had a player so even if the overhead camera couldn't see every player the viewer could. Then when they knew it, drawing lines or areas that some of the players were aiming towards.

And I do have to say, props to Matty Marshall. That guy is a great commentator

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[DocsMachine]

Again, those videos work for people who are already fans- that is, paintballers. And yeah, I've seen some great videos that were fun as hell to watch. But the idea if televising the sport is to get it out to the people who aren't regular paintballers. People that maybe want to try it, people that would try it but haven't see it played, etc. In that case, the video needs to appeal to, and be easily followed by, non-players.

Sure, more cameras and drones help, but no matter what, the viewer can't really see the paint fly like they can a thrown football. And even when the camera is in the right place to record a hit, the hit happens in a split second- it just magically appears. Worse, it magically appears out of view of the camera, or on an unobtrusive spot like the underside of a tank or the flap of his harness.

Combine that with multiple fields of fire to keep track of, and even with the best cameras and editing, it's nigh impossible for a non-fan to follow.

And it's not just my opinion. People have been trying to televise games since even before the '96 ESPN games, which didn't even flick the needle on the 'how many are watching' scale.

Doc.

[Refoogee]

Doc's right. The goal of paintball is mainly to avoid getting hit by a paintball. What that translates to is a bunch of people hiding behind cover, and shooting invisible ropes at each other, all over the place. There's no singular focus, nothing to actually follow, and nobody really moves. Nobody really moves in pump, or stock class games, either.

All of these games, if they want to be a viewed sport, or seen in a more serious manner, need to go back to the drawing board completely. Popular sports need a central focus for people to follow. There needs to be a lot of visible action to follow. Etc. The goal of paintball, unironically, needs to not be shooting paintballs. The markers, and paint, should be a tool used to get something else done on the field. Getting hit should be what your offense, and defense, centers around, but not how you score points. The technology of the game should be about facilitating interesting engagements, centered around a central goal.

The most interesting game of paintball I've ever watched, was a pump/magfed game, played on a small "city" field, surrounded by woods. Some of these plywood bunkers in the "city" portion of the field had an ipad inside them with two buttons of the teams colors. You were supposed to go into the bunkers, and hit your team button. If one team controlled a majority of ipads, a timer would start. Each team had a unique timer. If control was tied, both timers stopped. Game was over when ones team timer hit zero. Getting hit, and taken out, put you in a spectator box. After a certain amount of time, you were back in the game. The fact that the goal relied on your physical presence to complete it, and getting hit was more of a slap on the wrist, encouraged a lot of bigger, more aggressive movement, and a very clear "attack, and defense" gameplan.

[DocsMachine]

Westworld used to have something like that, when they still used the old movie sets to play. Each flag station had a pole and two flags on a pulley. Pull the blue flag down and that raised the red one, etc. The game lasted 15 minutes, or maybe half an hour, with respawns (we called them "resurrections" at the time ) and at the end of the time period, the refs tallied how many were red and how many were blue.

Doc.

[glaman5266]

I haven't seen anyone mention this: it's a projectile-based sport that involves shooting a gun-like object. That, coupled with the history paintball has with egotistical players, attitudes, and vandalism, is not going to win any potential big-name sponsors over or get on TV on a meaningful stage.

Look at the Olympics. I have never once in my life seen trap, skeet or sporting clays shown on Olympic TV in the US. Why? Because guns. Yes, we have the biathlon and other forms of stationary target shooting, but those are what I consider "special" forms of firearms competitions and are more in line with how the world outside the US views firearms. Heaven forbid they show trap shooting, a common American shooting activity, on national TV when the American media doesn't want us seeing guns to begin with outside of the usual dreary news stories.

Sports that use gun-like devices are not attractive to many sponsors. That's just how it is. Not trying to be political. I'm just explaining pretty much how it is, regardless of what we think of it.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Stop trying to monetize it. It’s more fun when money isn’t involved. Just enjoy it for what it is. Good old fashioned tag at distance.

[Magmoormaster]

I have only skimmed but based on a few parts of the conversation I’ve seen I’ll throw in my thoughts.

Re: hard to see paint, my gosh guys the solution is so simple. Glowball. Even speedsoft, which uses rounds orders of magnitude smaller than paintball, is easier to follow because they all have tracer rounds. If you haven’t seen the more recent videos of glowball it’s really easy to follow. Doesn’t even need to be pitch black, just like kinda low light.

One thing I just thought about re: previous attempts at televising paintball is that they would show three days worth of the event with little to no context. All divisions mixed in, weird hour long breaks, 12 hour broadcasts. And you’ll get one event every 2-3 months.

Compared to baseball, basketball, football, etc, it’s just too much. You can’t get attached to a team when you barely see them, and when you’re wheeling back and forth thru divisions and matchups.

it needs to be broken up. I don’t know what the magic formula is, and logistically it would be difficult. But we should do away with the tournament format and go with something closer to other major sporting leagues, with games spread out but more frequently over the season. Monday night, dynasty plays XSV, Thursday night Heat plays DMG. Keep the matches to an hour or so, and probably don’t do it live. At the very least, run it at a delay so they can tun footage from the best camera for the moment.

I think that alone would help with watchability. People will be more likely to tune in for a short period, eventually pick up a favorite team, get invested.

re: format, eh that’s a dead horse around here. What I will say is that I played a limited paint event a month or so ago. Magfed, semi, or pump, but you could only use 10 round tubes. It was in no way different or more fun to play than regular paintball. No one moved more, they just shot less. People still just filled out the back bunkers and took pot shots. It was genuinely one of the most boring days of paintball I’ve ever played.

I think glowball would fix most of the issues, but if you really must change I’d say go no further than mech only, maybe maybe limit to 500 rounds per player. But pump and stock class is going too far. You’ll alienate too many people with that.

Also, re: cheaters, y’all need to get over it. The worst thing the industry has ever done was call it “cheating” instead of “penalty”. Every single competitive activity has cheating. Period.. Paintball is not special or worse in that regard. Reframe it to “penalty” and punish it like other sports do, and stop treating it like it’s some moral injustice.

[The Hobbit]

I agree with breaking it into individual matches. I assume the money isn’t there to support that. So keep the tournament setup but any broadcast show is weekly and highlights one team.

It follows them from prelims to wherever they finish out. Of course run sportsball interviews and discussions and offer curated game coverage, enough to showcase the format and “teach” the rules but also working on showcasing and introducing teams and players.

[DocsMachine]

It's worth noting that your eye sees a glowing ball a lot better than a typical camera does. If the idea is to get a TV show, the camera has to be able to pick up the glowing ball- and the trade-off is that in the dim lighting, then the players and bunkers get harder to see.

Not an impossible conundrum to solve, but also not as simple a solution as suggested.

Doc.

[Magmoormaster]

That's probably fair, but considering how well they do show up on camera (be it the recent string of glowball events or speedsoft) I don't think that's much of an issue.