Nelson Body Identification Tips

[ghilliesuit]

I am considering purchasing a nelson based body to build my first pump. How/What do you guys look for - or are they all the same?? Obviously things like removable barrels, feed styles, etc... can be be verified. However, what about internals? Grip frames?

Essentially, looking at something labeled as an empty lapco body... It looks the same as a phantom, or a hammer, or any other nelson pump. Or should I purchase a loaded kingman hammer and just install same internal/external upgrades and enjoy?

I appreciate the help.

Edit: In short, does the "pedigree" of the body really matter? If so, are there some common things you guys use to ID body's if there is no external branding?

[Chaos]

Best way to look at it if you want ease of build and access of parts your best bet is going to be to either stick with just getting a phantom and keep everything Phantom related or get a Kingman hammer since Spyder barrels are easy to get or a wgp ranger for the same reason. Keep in mind if you're going to go with a regular Nelson that's not a phantom and you're going to buy a trigger frame for it that Phantom ones will not fit without modification to the frame or the gun..... However if you get a hammer or a ranger this isn't really an issue any Nelson frame would work on them (there might be slight modifications on certain ones)


If you don't care about Barrel options a Trracer / Maverick is a great platform to build on majority of most Nelson parts will fit. My current Trracer has a WWP Razorback grip frame, hammer and valve internals

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[ghilliesuit]

Best way to look at it if you want ease of build and access of parts your best bet is going to be to either stick with just getting a phantom and keep everything Phantom related or get a Kingman hammer since Spyder barrels are easy to get or a wgp ranger for the same reason. Keep in mind if you're going to go with a regular Nelson that's not a phantom and you're going to buy a trigger frame for it that Phantom ones will not fit without modification to the frame or the gun..... However if you get a hammer or a ranger this isn't really an issue any Nelson frame would work on them (there might be slight modifications on certain ones)


If you don't care about Barrel options a Trracer / Maverick is a great platform to build on majority of most Nelson parts will fit. My current Trracer has a WWP Razorback grip frame, hammer and valve internals

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Okay, what about internals? Are those universal (bolt, hammer, springs, etc...)? I'm assuming it's not but I'm genuinely in the dark on pump guns. Last pump I had was a BE Blade and a Talon.

[Chaos]

Most internals are compatible with the correct style parts.... Two things to remember is the difference between Bore Drop and Breech Drop.
The main operating difference is that the ball drops into the breech area, and must be pushed up a small step to be seated in the bore. The “bore drop” type simply drops the ball into what is basically the bore of the gun.
Example of a Breech Drop would be a Phantom or Nelspot 007 and a Bore Drop would be a Trracer or Hammer. Some parts are compatible between the two but the bodies and bolts wouldn't be.
Check Baccipaintball.com for images and parts,he's got tons of stuff

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[paintballedbackin88]

Bore drops usually have dual pump arms, and breech drops are single armed. Line SI bushmasters are an example of bore drop Nelson's, and Lapco grey ghosts are an example of breech drop Nelson's.

There are different generations of bushmaster where early bodies do not fit with later valve bodies, but internals and power tube will still be compatible.

I do believe in pedigree of body, and Colin Thompson, founder of Lapco, created the Grey ghost. A Lapco body in good shape is a good starting platform.

As Chaos already mentioned, Dan Bacci will have everything you need to get your Nelson based pump up and running.

A modern phantom addresses the major issues with old nelson pumps, namely removable barrels and ball detents. Older nelson pumps will have fixed, large bore barrels.

Nelson based pumps are great platforms for 12gram or stock class play. No pesky hpr to fiddle with, and very light compared to sheridan/sniper builds. No special tool required for disassembly.

Tuning a nelson is about power tube size, hammer/valve spring combo, and barrel to bore match for those with removable barrels. Some bore drop bolts and breech drop bolts are adjustable.

[spikeball]

From my experience building a Phantom from various parts that were not all CCI or from an original Nelson, there are a lot of minor differences in parts you wouldn't quite think about, and it seems to happen often. The length of the valve retaining screw section of the ASA, the shape of the sear, and the placement of the trigger and frame positioning to account for said sear.
You might think that any nelson part for their respective bore or breech drop should just bolt right together, right? Unfortunately that's not the case. Sure, many are compatible, but it's a lot of guess and check. Be ready for that and the potential modification that goes along with it.

Nelson platforms and STBB platforms are similar in the fact that you think that all these parts should fit, but from manufacturer to manufacturer, they changed something slightly to make it theirs.

Honestly, to save you the headache, just build a Phantom like Chaos said.

[Cunha]

A lapco body is a good starting point.

But good guts will cost you some money. Most likely you will spend more than a phantom for a gun that is worth slightly less. You can't compare the pump stroke to a regulated sniper either, since the sniper will require lighter springs so feel easier to pump.

There are a lot of good nelsons that go for cheap. The air power Apex is super high quality and has a mega good pump stroke if you aren't trying to make one stock class. Then you can decide how you want to solve the roll out problem and enjoy that pump gun. I would probably choose a good condition gun in complete condition and spend my time making it compatible with modern smaller bore paint rather than try to piece together something.

The only exception is the Nelspot 007 which is crunchy and bad stock and can get upgrades to become quite a nice pistol. Anything full size ends up being quite a difficult proposition unless you already have the parts sitting around.

All that being said, do what you want and have a good time. There is a lot more to it than bore drop vs breech drop.