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**The Inflicted** · 10-05-2021, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Ecapnation View Post

Nope.... A5's and tipx's are the pepper ball choice right now

Pepperball themselves are marketing Tiberius guns now.

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**spikeball** · 10-05-2021, 01:52 PM

I really want to like it but that rear hopper seems like it would just get in the way. For me at least.
They might have left the electronic aspect out of it so they don't infringe on their X7 platform.

**The Inflicted** · 10-05-2021, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by spikeball View Post

I really want to like it but that rear hopper seems like it would just get in the way. For me at least.
They might have left the electronic aspect out of it so they don't infringe on their X7 platform.

Got to hold a preproduction sample 2 years ago and I can confirm the ergos on this thing are wack. You definitely can't see down the top of the gun with a mask on, which to me nullifies a lot of the incentive for doing away with a traditional hopper.

I feel like a better setup would have been to have the hopper resemble a box mag under the front of the gun, or maybe even under the barrel, as on the TS-1.

Also, a single-finger trigger would have made more sense, or at least a double-finger trigger with a wave shape to allow comfortable single-finger use.

**Trbo323** · 10-05-2021, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by The Inflicted View Post

Got to hold a preproduction sample 2 years ago and I can confirm the ergos on this thing are wack. You definitely can't see down the top of the gun with a mask on, which to me nullifies a lot of the incentive for doing away with a traditional hopper..

I'm actually really surprised at this. Not the ergos, that's expected, but not being able to aim over the top, milsim is tippmanns cash cow, adding attachments is how they put together trust funds for their children. Seems really odd that they decided not to go that route

Originally posted by The Inflicted View Post

I feel like a better setup would have been to have the hopper resemble a box mag under the front of the gun, or maybe even under the barrel, as on the TS-1..

So a fixed box loader? Maybe, it's not a bad idea. I'm actually a little surprised tippmann hasn't released a box mag for their markers yet (that I've heard about anyway)

Originally posted by The Inflicted View Post

Also, a single-finger trigger would have made more sense, or at least a double-finger trigger with a wave shape to allow comfortable single-finger use.

But that's what the rest of the industry wants your to do! Yes it makes sense, yes it's a better way to do it! Do you always do what "the man" tells you to inflicted!?! Uncomfortable double trigger! Break away from societies norms!

Also, this allows them to sell an "upgraded" trigger down the road

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**The Inflicted** · 10-05-2021, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Trbo323 View Post

I'm actually really surprised at this. Not the ergos, that's expected, but not being able to aim over the top, milsim is tippmanns cash cow, adding attachments is how they put together trust funds for their children. Seems really odd that they decided not to go that route

There's a couple different top plates that some of the preproduction guns were shipped with, including a clear one and one with a short length of pic rail, but you'd still need a funky riser or angled adapter, and maybe both, to get a decent sight picture.

Originally posted by Trbo323 View Post

So a fixed box loader? Maybe, it's not a bad idea. I'm actually a little surprised tippmann hasn't released a box mag for their markers yet (that I've heard about anyway)

Especially since "Tippmann" effectively owns Halo. A box mag that looks the part, runs on Prophecy guts, and fits the TMC/Stormer (or maybe, with an offset adapter, the A5 or X7) would probably sell a couple units.

Originally posted by Trbo323 View Post

But that's what the rest of the industry wants your to do! Yes it makes sense, yes it's a better way to do it! Do you always do what "the man" tells you to inflicted!?! Uncomfortable double trigger! Break away from societies norms!

The real answer is that it allows them to reuse the molds from the dumb Tippmann Stryker line of guns.

If Tippmann really wanted to shake up the market they would release a more "normal" version of this thing- strip away the dumb regulator cover and the ridiculous loader and you're left with a 'cocker-threaded gOg eNMEy. At the right MSRP something like that would sell just fine.

The plastic body sleeve for that gun could have diagonally-offset sight rails like an AGD tac-one. For added fun, rework the body tube and give it a removable plastic breech that could be swapped in for a sideways-facing STEN-style magwell that takes TMC magazines.

**Trbo323** · 10-05-2021, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by The Inflicted View Post

The real answer is that it allows them to reuse the molds from the dumb Tippmann Stryker line of guns.

I think it's really odd what tippmann chooses to recycle and what they don't.

M98 and 98c are very very close but a lot of the parts for the 98c don't work on the m98 which means tippmann needed to have separate molds made for the 2 designs and continue to use both as time went on. I have to guess this probably cost them more money to do as you can't just order 1000 98s, you have to order 500 from mold A and the factory then has to re tool for mold B for the second 500

But in the end, little Jimmy who bought the m98 is forced to buy a 98c first when he decides that he wants a double trigger or RT.

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**Meleager7** · 10-06-2021, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Trbo323 View Post

I think it's really odd what tippmann chooses to recycle and what they don't.

This is so true, considering the parts bin they have at their fingertips.

Think of the fast food industry and how their restaurants will all have a set # of ingredients, but they are constantly creating different combinations and calling it a brand new product

Kore Sports/ Tippmann is kind of in the same boat and has opportunity to re-purpose their existing inventions in new interesting ways . Such as the Cyclone Drive piston, The RT piston, the Cyclone loader assembly, the Flex Valve, the Rip Drive components, the Halo components, etc etc

We saw a glimpse of their creativity and risk taking shine through in the Raider.....but the direction Tippmann eventually takes to market seems to always be bland , safe route as of late.

I mean , how boring is their current Stormer line!???

**vijil** · 10-06-2021, 05:10 PM

I always thought the idea was a good one, kindof, except for the mask issue. The hopper needs to be lowered more, but that would mean lowering the tank mount, and people might react badly to that look, and then you're moving the balls further = more to go wrong.

And it completely defies belief that they wouldn't have rail mounts on top. You can't even fix the problem yourself.

In speedball you definitely want to keep the weight back, so hopper-over-tank design could definitely have been a thing in speedball, especially if it wasn't part of the marker and gave you the option to remove it and just run something ordinary. The Dfender seemed like a test platform for the idea, but when it didn't really take off they probably gave up on the concept.

Box mags are a great idea but they really mess with foregrip ergo. It wouldn't have to be "box" shape though, especially if you can integrate it into the design well.

**scrounger** · 10-20-2021, 12:53 AM

Ill throw my two cents in here

first this design concept gives the ammo capacity of a standard gun with the setup of a mil sim mag fed.

IMO the best of both worlds.

now on to the only two (to my knowledge) production models of this .

the dfender i have good playability knowledge of since my friends wife runs with one and i got to play with it on the field.

it is a nice balance , durable (with metal body) and the carbon fiber look (in two different color setups) is great, and really reliable fire rate.

You really need a remote setup but not too bad with a smaller tank (like a 45 or 48) on gun

the two things that have a learning curve is loading quickly and getting used to you can just look down the barrel with no obstructions for clear LOS fire.
btw has a REALLY GREAT fire rate and you can unload your hopper really quickly in semi if you dont pay attention.

I think is "failure" (and i use that word only because i cant think of anything else) is mostly due to its price.
it was on the high side for something so new and revolutionary

now on to this from tippman.

im sorry but the form looks UGLY and also looks like its quite awkward.

IMO it looks more like a prototype someone threw together to test a new concept.

I dont mind someone putting out a competing concept to the dfender...
but i think this is heading for a failure not on concept but construction.

add to it from what i have seen on line it has a complicated mechanical setup that just lends itself to failure.

I would like to see on on the field to see if my opinions are wrong.

but given the already bug worked out dfender i dont have high hopes

scrounger

**Scougar** · 10-20-2021, 10:28 AM

The problem was, and always will be unless someone can get smart with it.... mask clearance.

**Meleager7** · 10-21-2021, 05:38 PM

....and it's for sale now!

How many will they sell!??

**Bow** · 10-23-2021, 01:27 PM

These are really bad. Our field had 10 of them and NONE of them could feed more than 12 balls before it jammed or had feeding issues. Many, Many. many angry customers later and they were all sent back.

The most annoying thing for anyone who used them was having to prime the cyclone like 20 times to get a ball stack, no renter or player want to do that multiple times in a day.

Harder to take apart than a regular 98/A5 with 20x the problems.

They failed because they didn't do enough R&D, and had tons of problems.

**The Inflicted** · 10-23-2021, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Bow View Post

These are really bad. Our field had 10 of them and NONE of them could feed more than 12 balls before it jammed or had feeding issues. Many, Many. many angry customers later and they were all sent back.

When was this? This year or before?

**Trbo323** · 10-23-2021, 02:13 PM

$300, could be worse

What's the valve system in these? Is it their automag spool clone or something else?

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**djeclypse** · 10-24-2021, 02:20 AM

Seeing this video from Defcon, I can't understand what the hell the R&D department at Tippmann/Kore was thinking. So many WRONGS that are basic common sense for paintball. Its obviously marketed towards woodsball and scenario, but no rails? Hopper feed opens backwards? Shoulder placement impossible?

Tippmann missed their opportunity with the crossover/x7 phenom engine, where they could have made a super strong GRN mech only version of the crossover, and beat the Emek to market. Their magfed options are definitely great value, and from my experience function just like a tippmann should, but they are losing their bread and butter. The rental and entry level market.

https://youtu.be/bxaSLxsnYWE

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