Umarex to make a 68 caliber, 5-shot revolver- HDR-68

[Chuck E Ducky]

It will shoot FS as is. There is a shooting video of it doing so. While velocity is on the low side from the factory there are several mods for “self defense” that up the velocity on some of the valves commonly used in theses markers. My hope is we can get them shooting closer to 300fps, With a few mods. May even be possible to make them adjustable like the TR50’s.

[Trbo323]

first paintball gun valves MAY shoot over 300. but thats due to a MALFUNCTION and not what its designed for.
all gun valves are DESIGNED to "blow off" at 300 and above .
its a safety feature and no gun is allowed if it can regularly shoot at that speed.

What alternate reality are you living in? This is not true at all

The valve in any marker does not know what the velocity of the paint coming out the barrel is.

There are a few blow off style purge valves out there but they are on the regulators not the main valve of the marker alsoA) they are designed to protect the solenoid and internals from damage not control velocity

And B) they work off of pressure not velocity

You can set up a marker with a short overbore barrel shooting 300fps, then switch to a longer tighter bore and you will be shooting well above 300fps. There was no malfunction or illegal marker modification and you don't even need to touch the pressure/valve

There are many factors that control velocity, pressure is only one of them so any "blow off" wouldn't be able to control velocity on it's own

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Headshotted]

The SoCo fields just run a blanket 285 or sub 300.

[BrickHaus]

We already know you can shoot fs rounds out of it. But velocity is likely 240 ish.

That being said my local field has a 250 fps limit on fs rounds so it would be golden.

[Lt. head-shot]

I'm in the same boat. If you CAN'T shoot first strikes with it, then what is the point!!!

[Headshotted]

Look, I just want to know, can you shove first strikes in it and I make annoying long ball shots at around 275-280 fps with pretty simple mods. That's the only thing stopping me from slamming the order button on friday.

[BrickHaus]

And to your point on being able to single load balls in the marker. YES please! Lol, but I think in the heat of battle a quick swap of your speed wheel will do.

[BrickHaus]

Scrounger. Please don't take my comment as a cheap shot. If anything it was meant in jest. I even thought of the voice of the guy from South Park as I typed it. I honestly took your previous comments as a trollish, so I was feeding said troll to a degree. Sorry if I offended you sir.

2nd on the valves. I understand the ruling behind this, at the same time, what constitutes home modified vs not? I can easily make up a mod for a valve, put the dimensions on paper, and have a machine shop make a batch of said design. Is that still " home modified" ? It wouldn't have any further engineering or testing behind it than the one I fabbed up in my garage, but arguably its not a home mod any more correct? If we sub contracted the valve work out, are they now legal? I feel they would be by he way the law is written up, but no further safety factors are in place at that point. And to Xenoms point, after market companies do this all of the time, and any company based outside of the US doesn't have to adhere to the laws we are arguing about, yet their commercial products can be sold as aftermarket, and legally used. So where is the line in the sand?

Further more , the rules are in place to protect field owners, and manufacturers, not people. As you say, AFTER an incident occurs, then an investigation may be opened, in which case it MAY be proven that your home modified paintball gun caused an injury in which case you would be facing what? Negligence charges if proven? And if you got verbal confirmation to use said device prior to the incident, now who's at fault?


Third. Back to my comment on a machine shop.
Even commercially sold aftermarket parts are regularly sold with no valid proven certifications. That being said, if my ion with a warrior bolt installed shoots hot and hurts someone, do I really have a leg to stand on to sue warrior? Can I request all CMTRs and testing data from Warrior? not likely. so whats the difference? The way the laws are written is to put all blame on the trigger man regardless of whoms really at fault, so why even adhere to said laws? ( serious question)

4th the model being sold in the US by MCSUS is being sold as a paintball gun. The rated energy output is 7.5 Joules. Which is well under the figured energy of a paintball fired at 280 fps. Adjustable or not these should be deemed safe for paintball use. And if it gets a first strike round down range at 245 fps. No further modifications would be needed. That being said. If the valve was modified to get a bit more out of round ball, and ir to get first strike velocity below 250fps. I still dont see the issue short of some rich guy isnt going to be responsible IF something bad happens.

5th we all sign limited liability waivers when we hit the field. Last one I looked through pretty much stated that me as a player assumed all responsibility for all injuries I may have on the field. I know these can be diced up in court quickly, but I think most fields are so heavily invested in that waiver, that they aren't actively checking guns for modifications.

At some point common sense has to over rule law, because law lacks common sense in most cases.


Back to my trollish comment. On one hand you state we cant use these pistols AT ALL as they arent rated for recreational use. Qnd you keep sighting the SA8 debacle, but imo thats apples to oranges as the energy outputs are on the opposite side of the safety spectrum.

On the other hand you say we can't mod the valves to get closer to the safety limit. Which has some validity, but again we are splitting hairs here for laws and bylaws that arent really enforced. This is also a modification no one will notice without prior product knowledge and or thorough inspection. So unless a nation wide insurance ban occurs, I do t see how I will be prevented from using this pistol.

[XEMON]

That makes sense, I get your concern.
I disagree with the after market, they don't go through anything ... Any company can make parts and sell them. But your point remains valid.
I'll look through the manual of the umarex to see what it said on there.
Now I'm curious to get my hand on a field insurance policy to see how they phrase things 😅

[scrounger]

alot of those thing you mentioned were made for paintball.
hence "after market" by know entities who have to go though something (dont claim to know all the legal details) to protect them from say it fails, hurts you and you get sued.
sadly alot of the wildcatting we did back in the early days are not done today purely due to legal liability aka being sued.
hence why you dont see (ex) using sabot shots to use multiple paintballs in rocket launchers and using paint grenades from rocket launchers
im NOT saying that people still dont use modifications and/or guns (ex sa 8) on fields.
but (pardon the pun) thats playing legal russian roulet.
along with if a field said (as some claim ) "They say i can do it"... if it does have an injury they gonna deny you like a hot rock.
doesnt matter what someone "wants" or "gonna do what i want to do"
if someone gets hurt and it aint legally protected for liability .. your screwed.
this cuts both ways in other areas like you cannot use paintball guns legally/liability in law enforcement
hence why you have an sa 8 for the police and a tiberious 8.1 for paintball
both made by same company and both are almost identical except for the valve and ammo.
but neither is LEGALLY usable for the other..
like i said this revolver walks both lines in the US (as it appears, i have NOT seen the paperwork).
But for paintball has some serious shortcomings that COULD BE EASILY FIXED with some small tweeks and made in US (due to european draconian paintball rules).

scrounger

[XEMON]

scrounger i totaly agree with hyou about wishing there were a dedicated, paintball designed platform.
American made gear will be expensive and will never be within the price range of these (look at the DRV, nearly 10 times the price).

first paintball gun valves MAY shoot over 300. but thats due to a MALFUNCTION and not what its designed for.
all gun valves are DESIGNED to "blow off" at 300 and above .
its a safety feature and no gun is allowed if it can regularly shoot at that speed.

under the insurance of paintball fields YOU CANNOT have a gun, third party mods, whatever that allows that.

second

you are not "prohibiting all guns with adjustable velocity".. just those that adjust above 300 and those that are not "factory/commercially made" VALVES.

I have never seen a gun that "vent" at 300fps or is designed to do so. The closer i have seen are vent valve for CO2 overpressure.
Are all paintball guns "malfunctioning"?

third.

the sa 8 CLEARLY STATES both on its frame and by its certification "NOT FOR RECREATIONAL USE"
Its valve is designed for STARTING AT 300 fps and to 350 fps..
a paintball valve at most is to top off at 300 "
so by its design and certification IS NOT A PAINTBALL MARKER/GUN
no insurance company is gonna allow it no matter what you claim you get it to shoot at.
if someone is hurt the field and person WILL BE SUED and win because IT ISNT A PAINTBALL GUN/MARKER


this argument was tried over and over back when this situation happened and you are making the same rant .
the truth is it isnt a paintball marker nor can it be used as one.
PERIOD.

You make a good point here. It protect them from liability, and give grounds to insurance to not cover them on a paintball field.
There is a big difference between what the gun is being marketed as/for and what it is designed to shoot, this ties into #4. I have seen TIPX and T8 "paintball" pistols advertised and sold as "self defense" and "less than lethal", also seen police use Tippmann for "crowd control". Some of those are fixed velocity, but most are the same as the "paintball version".
On the other side, most of the Umarex line is sold as "paintball pistol" even when they are fixed velocity and marked at 355fps:


Same thing on the Umarex.co website:


Clearly there is a disconnect between "advertised for", "designed for", "used for" and "insured for".

As a side note, here is what is on the HDS68. Ill check the note on the HDR68 (and post it) when I get mine.

look lets look at what i said SPECIFICALLY about this revolver.

it was designed by european laws to be a "Self defense " launcher..
dont say i agree with the laws there , just what they are.

it is being advertised as for paintball and thanks to a NON ADJUSTABLE valve the FPS fall well within the legal limits here.

what i am saying is the limit is quite low to be honest and people will try to "modify" the valve for higher FPS.
i understand why but the insurance companies are not like the old days where you can wildcat anything.
valves are one of those.
the video showed standard paintball rounds were being blown apart regularly and i suspect due to it was set up for more durable self defense rounds.
i could be wrong and they work fine with standard rounds just really short range due to FPS
all i am saying is seeing a rush to modify THE VALVE (for higher fps) in way that will (or more likely will) not be supported by insurance. because NOT COMMERCIALLY MADE/CERTIFIED.

then i asked (because ID LOVE A PAINTBALL REVOLVER IN 68 LIKE THIS.. id buy one in a second) why not find a US maker that can take this design and make the modifications SPECIFICALLY for paintball.

that is all

scrounger

I get your reasoning here.
This would mean all PPS guns (and all Sheridans with enlarged valve/transfer port), all aftermarket cocker valves, all Tippman modified to with extended transfer tubes, all spiders with aftermarket springs would also not be covered by insurance?
(I am genuinely asking here)

[scrounger]

Brickhaus
with respect i have been on MCB for over 10 years and WELL AWARE of how it works here.
dont go there with that cheap shot.

second.
modifications is the life blood of paintball and seen it since i started in 1986
but (sadly) some things DUE TO LIABLITY AND LEGAL REASONS cannot be "home modified"
valves is one of them.
why the issues with the SA 8 situation

third
if a kit is not home made but certified/commercial/whatever term in some things like valves the INSURANCE will cover it.
but again depends on the situation.

fourth

your comment about a pistol we are IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT.
i would love such one as a defense. especially when running with my havoc.

I think you missed i wish they would make this pistol in the US to paintball specs of handling standard gelatin balls (with first strike being a WIN over the top option) with a velocity adjustment
or at least at 250

BTW i wish they could make this with the ability to load first strike or standard by a latch on the side with loading one , rotate.
like a real firearm six shooter does

scrounger

[BrickHaus]

First. This is MCB, if you have this much of a problem with modifying things to be used for something other than their original intentions, then I think are gonna have a bad time here.

Second. Go look at William the thirds adjustable tr50 valve assemblies. They look like professional kits to me, and if I had a tr50. Id own one. The mods done to the valve assembly will be plenty within reason for safety if thought up in these parts.

Third. If my pistol throws a first strike round at 250 fps. Im golden. I wont have to modify anything. That being said if an adjustable valve assembly is designed here by someone smarter than myself. Id still get one for hot days.

[William the Third]

[scrounger]

This can be said of every paintball guns made ... they all can shoot over 300fps ...
And the same thing apply to all custom guns and third party mods ...

Are we going to prohibit all guns with adjustable velocity?

As far as i know, the field has insurance as long as the projectile are paintballs and they are shot below 280 or 300 (depending on fields) ... they dont care what we shoot them out of ...
The fields that i have seen "prohibit" SA-8 because of the high velocity was to be easier of the staff. If they shoot consistently bellow field limit with a fresh 12g, they're good to go ...
(blanket "this gun is not allowed at this field" are, in my experience, to make it easy on the field staff)

There is no certification process of any kind for paintball guns, and some "paintball guns" were not designed for paintball use. I'm thinking of the 007 and DSDS as prime example; are they "paintball gun"? can they be used in play?

Ultimately, the insurance and industry will be the driver for regulation and certification/approval. But i don't see the entire industry banning virtually every piece of equipment on the market (I may be naïve/optimistic).
This may be a debate for another thread.

first paintball gun valves MAY shoot over 300. but thats due to a MALFUNCTION and not what its designed for.
all gun valves are DESIGNED to "blow off" at 300 and above .
its a safety feature and no gun is allowed if it can regularly shoot at that speed.

under the insurance of paintball fields YOU CANNOT have a gun, third party mods, whatever that allows that.

second

you are not "prohibiting all guns with adjustable velocity".. just those that adjust above 300 and those that are not "factory/commercially made" VALVES.

third.

the sa 8 CLEARLY STATES both on its frame and by its certification "NOT FOR RECREATIONAL USE"
Its valve is designed for STARTING AT 300 fps and to 350 fps..
a paintball valve at most is to top off at 300 "
so by its design and certification IS NOT A PAINTBALL MARKER/GUN
no insurance company is gonna allow it no matter what you claim you get it to shoot at.
if someone is hurt the field and person WILL BE SUED and win because IT ISNT A PAINTBALL GUN/MARKER


this argument was tried over and over back when this situation happened and you are making the same rant .
the truth is it isnt a paintball marker nor can it be used as one.
PERIOD.

fourth

your point about the 007 is missing one thing
the rounds it used were (outside of now we use food dye vs oil based paint) for all practical purposes the same

a self defense / pepperball gun the rounds are different
they use a thin plastic type shell with the powder or liquid fill
it is much more durable in comparison to the gel shell of the paintball round.
hence why it hits with more force and can take the higher velocities that blow apart regular paintball rounds
along with designed to shoot hard rubber rounds as well (harder than reballs)

look lets look at what i said SPECIFICALLY about this revolver.

it was designed by european laws to be a "Self defense " launcher..
dont say i agree with the laws there , just what they are.

it is being advertised as for paintball and thanks to a NON ADJUSTABLE valve the FPS fall well within the legal limits here.

what i am saying is the limit is quite low to be honest and people will try to "modify" the valve for higher FPS.
i understand why but the insurance companies are not like the old days where you can wildcat anything.
valves are one of those.

the video showed standard paintball rounds were being blown apart regularly and i suspect due to it was set up for more durable self defense rounds.

i could be wrong and they work fine with standard rounds just really short range due to FPS

all i am saying is seeing a rush to modify THE VALVE (for higher fps) in way that will (or more likely will) not be supported by insurance.because NOT COMMERCIALLY MADE/CERTIFIED.

then i asked (because ID LOVE A PAINTBALL REVOLVER IN 68 LIKE THIS.. id buy one in a second) why not find a US maker that can take this design and make the modifications SPECIFICALLY for paintball.

that is all

scrounger