Dye releases UL-I Barrel Insert System

[zinger565]

Dye announced the next iteration of the UL barrel today: an insert based system!

Actually, this is kinda neat because they partnered with PE to make it compatible with the PWR inserts, and vice versa. So Dye UL-I inserts can be used in PE barrels, or even ID Stella kits, etc etc.

Dye marketing:

The new DYE UL-I Barrel Insert System has reset the standard for accuracy and quality. The UL-I is THE upgrade for paintball markers and offers unparalleled versatility and performance. The extended 8.5” control bore utilizes multi-stage precision honing and boasts the most accurate and consistent finish available in paintball. The self-aligning three-piece construction ensures properly centered assembly between barrel back, barrel tip and insert. Our trademarked muzzle brake boasts progressive porting and optimized harmonics and an ultra-quiet sound signature that is aesthetically pleasing. Designed and refined by DYE Precision, the leading manufacturer in barrels for the paintball industry, this barrel insert system allows players to easily switch between different bore sizes to match their paintballs and optimize accuracy and efficiency on the field.

Website: https://shop.dyepaintball.com/collec...-barrel-system

Insert sizes go from .676 to .692 in .002 increments.

Some "insider information" that's out in the public if you know where to look:

The internals were designed around the spec you (PE) provided. We (DYE) did change some features to improve axial alignment based on our own barrel philosophy. We also made some changes to the inserts themselves based on our own barrel standards. We feel like this was the right move for the industry at the time to support an insert standard that works with other vendors' products. Thank you Jack and Ledz for the support in making this transition.

Jack's response:

Thank you for confirming that (DYE). I was really hoping that it was compatible. As you say, it makes sense for everyone.

A year to the day that I shared our passion with Billy at Philly to have an insert system that works for all of us as vendors, and benefits the customer as well.

Sorry I can’t be there this weekend to see you.

Jack

Personally, I think it's kinda cool to see two of the "big 3" working together on stuff.

[superman]

This is awesome, I hoped it would be when i saw it posted today. Any insight in to what was changed on the dye inserts?

[ChuckLove]

Courtesy of ironyusa on PBNation (John from Dye) ”…The internals were designed around the spec you provided. We did change some features to improve axial alignment based on our own barrel philosophy. We also made some changes to the inserts themselves based on our own barrel standards. We feel like this was the right move for the industry at the time to support an insert standard that works with other vendors' products. Thank you Jack and Ledz for the support in making this transition.”

[superman]

ya i am more curious to know what exactly they did. I also wonder if this means freeflow will be switching to the new barrel system.

[Spangler]

I would also like to know exactly the different changes they did to fall in line with their ideology on barrels. Sometimes the wording just leaves me to believe that it is just marketing.

[iamthelazerviking]

Another PWR barrel!

[Trbo323]

That's really cool that dye and PE are working together. There's not nearly enough cross brand compatibility if you ask me. I really wish they could settle on a standard ASA mount even if it's going to be gas through

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[uv_halo]

To think that all of these sprung from Punkworks testing data 😄

[Trbo323]

To think that all of these sprung from Punworks testing data 😄

Link? I've never seen this

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[uv_halo]

After a whole bunch of documented testing (that you have to go into the Wayback machine to recover), Bryce (of Punkworks) published this video in 2009:

The short of it, is that in their mind, the optimal barrel (efficient, consistent, quiet) would be something like this:

• 8-10" Control Bore (underbored) that opens up to a front (i.e. .70") with porting for an overall length of 12-14".

After this, you start to see barrels that fit this description. FLASC and Nummech (ZDSPB) started making barrels like this really quickly, then the Freak XL / Superfreak, then the Inception Stella barrels, Then the PE PWR Insert system and now DYE. Additionally, the Punkworks team had many conversations with notable individuals from most of these manufacturers.

[Shane-O]

Before Punkworks did their testing, it was already established by Tom K, that 8" was the optimum control bore.
My take is that most manufacturers didnt follow that was mostly from a manufacturing reason. More material and harder to produce. In my experience, the difference from 6" to 8" control bore was not readily apparent on the field. BUT, I do prefer to use an 8" control bore when I can or a single bore one piece barrel. The old J&J Ceramic was my favorite until the bore sizing became more important. Now I use small bore Eigen barrels.

[Sdawg]

CRBN is also using these inserts.

Dye and CRBN appear to have a partnership re: soft goods, so I guess this barrel thing is an extension of that.

[uv_halo]

Simon from Inception Designs stated in the Inception Designs Owners Group on Facebook that PWR Inserts are actually his design, and were first adopted by PE and now other companies as well.

Of course they were his design.. Influenced by the punkworks research. Punkworks identified features that would be desirable based on testing. That's not the same thing as designing/engineering a barrel or barrel system.

[uv_halo]

I'd give a like on your comment if I could

[Brokeass_baller]

Not saying Punkworks isn't a direct influence, but i remember Tom Kaye writing about 8" control bored being optimal for efficiency.

[Sdawg]

Not saying Punkworks isn't a direct influence, but i remember Tom Kaye writing about 8" control bored being optimal for efficiency.

Same, I remember him making that statement. Anecdotally, I can say it holds up


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[uv_halo]

Not saying Punkworks isn't a direct influence, but i remember Tom Kaye writing about 8" control bored being optimal for efficiency.

Same, I remember him making that statement. Anecdotally, I can say it holds up


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Tom posted that "an overall effective length would be 8-10", here, in October of 2000. It's apparent to me that the industry did not respond to this finding. Two-piece barrel manufacturers continued to make their 5-6" control bore backs all the way through 2010. I suspect this is an example of companies not being interested in working together or, maybe they considered Tom's findings as a fluke, or maybe he didn't convince the consumer-base enough for the corporate marketing wanks to approve such a new product. Who knows?

If anyone can find a two-piece barrel with an 8-10" control bore and a ported front coming out before 2011 (which is when ZDSPB and Thin Air Sports released their "GnB Underbore Kit", named after Punkworks' Gordon and Bryce), Let me know.

[flyweightnate]

Redz made the "Peppersticks" with an 8" bore back in 2007, IIRC.

[uv_halo]

flyweightnate you got close but, no. Funny thing is, a Peppersticks kit was the first barrel kit I ever had and, I forgot about it. I know they were marketed as having "eight Inch backs" but, if you check them out on Bacci paintball (where he gives good measurements), the Overall length of the backs come in at 8" and, the 14" front comes in at 7.25 which means the control bore is no longer than 6.75".

[flyweightnate]

I stand corrected! And now I'm thinking about how incredibly short the actual control bore is on my Edge kit.

[cockerpunk]

pretty wild to see the industry actually converge on a good idea rather than a bad one. 'eh hem cocker threads.

we also found that spools, or slower released power pulse guns tended to prefer even slightly longer. but my gut tells me that the further away you get from the initial power pulse, the less everything matters (which is why shorter backs survived as long as they did). ie, the gains from optimization decrease.


spitlebug did the initial design of the lurker eigen barrel, which was the first barrel specifically designed based on what we tested. which he offered to us, to sell under our own brand. we turned it down as we were not interested in becoming a paintball manufacturer, we just wanted barrels like that to be made. i assume he then offered it to lurker, and he took him up on it. and we consulted on the design of the GnB as well. everyone else slowly following suit.

I remember having a conversation with Jack Wood about barrel length backs around this time, because i wondered if they had any testing to back up there 5.5-6ish inch backs as being ideal. and he didnt. he said something in a britishism like "we just did what everyone else is doing" in a similar conversation with simon stevens he mentioned that its easier to keep a shorter bore accurate in both squareness and diameter, and thus shorter backs cost slightly less.

its free efficiency, seemed like a no brainer to us. glad to see folks coming around.

[martix_agent]

I always assumed that Lurker designed the eigenbarrel. I can't complain about mine, it's server me well for many years.

[cockerpunk]

I always assumed that Lurker designed the eigenbarrel. I can't complain about mine, it's server me well for many years.

im honestly not sure what interactions took place there, i just know that spittlebug pitched us a barrel with v1 eigen barrel specs and look, and then a few months later, it was available from lurker.