Metadyne Thumper/Phoenix Redux

[Daky]

I'm curious on what they will be mailing out. Are they mailing out a trimmed down ball retainer? Or a new adapter that will allow a 10 round tube to fit properly...

[Timefreak17]

To those who purchased a Phoenix. Scott sent out an email addressing the 10rd feed not working.

Email quote:
It would appear that we have come across two issues from user feedback. 1. Some people are having issues getting their barrel to thread in all the way. This is caused by the anodizing being just a little thick in that area. we have run a tap through all the ones we have on hand. If you are having this issue please email me and I will send you out a new one.
2. It would appear that you can not stick a ten round tube far enough into the stock class adapter to empty the tube. We are not sure how this happened but we take full responsibility for not double checking. The amount of material needed to be removed is tiny but still causes a problem. I will be mailing out a new one today and tomorrow if you ordered one. there will also be a self addressed stamped envelope to return the old one.

Also if you ordered a barrel they finally came in and I will get them out today.

End quote;

I appreciate that they are reaching out to correct any issues. Hopefully all or any feedback helps move the Phoenix in a better direction.

[Slim]

I posted this comment on the YouTube video earlier today, but feel it's worth repeating here...

Another informative and well-produced video that details important observations with this marker. Thank you for making this! Unfortunately, the negative issues covered in the first video are only compounded with newer revelations this time around.

I experienced the same level of frustration at the overall complexity regarding disassembly/reassembly of this marker. If you're fed up with the assembly/disassembly of this thing now while using HPA, then you'll loose your mind when you start using CO2. Having to go through this many steps and having to use different tools just to get the thing apart is beyond maddening. The fact that these tiny screw heads are already stripping out while making a couple of test videos speaks volumes.

As there are a large number of stock-class players eyeballing this marker (specifically because it's being sold/marketed with a traditional stock-class feed), I think it's important to talk about that aspect. We have a marker here where the horizontal feed can't be used with a 10-round tube AND the marker can't be used with CO2 - basically rendering it completely useless for stock-class play. Scott at Metadyne told me on a call last September that even if the issues with the macroline/adjustable gas-through grip weren't an issue with CO2 (presumably the vertical ASA version is the solution to that), then the internal o-rings on the piston still would be a problem. Apparently, the piston o-rings won't hold up to long term CO2 use. It's beyond obvious that Metadyne designed the marker to run on HPA ONLY, so WHY INCLUDE A STOCK-CLASS FEED??!? Even IF the feedtube issue is resolved, and even IF the CO2 issues with the piston o-rings are resolved, there is still the issue of CO2 efficiency. Do you hear that little "chuff" of air venting out of the valve every time the marker is cocked/primed? I believe that is air escaping just before the piston seals during the cocking process. There is simply NO way to maintain ANY 12-gram CO2 efficiency if a marker releases even a tiny amount of CO2 during the cocking process. None.

At this point it seems pretty clear that Metadyne needs to "cut bait" and give up on the whole stock-class aspect of this marker. With the time, money and energy it will require to make this thing usable for true stock-class play (i.e. efficient CO2 use), it will undoubtably eat into any profit margins they have left. The smart thing to do here would be addressing the existing issues the marker has (some of which are pretty significant - like the barrel wobble) and fix all those first. Once the big issues are solved, then simply market this as an open-class pump (with a built-in feed nipple) and eliminate the production costs of including a stock-class feed.

The Phoenix was supposed to represent a redemptive measure for Metadyne - a way for the company to make good on the failures of the Thumper debacle. Unfortunately, they seem to be making many similar missteps in their approach to the overall design, lack of adequate beta testing (meaning months of extensive field use by non-employee players in different climates) and ultimately, how they are marketing their product. Obviously, listening to AND addressing user feedback and player's concerns would benefit them immensely. However, their rush to production and continuing to market this to a group of players who will never be able to use it seems like a totally unnecessary waste of time and money for everyone involved. Once the bugs are worked out, this seems like it may be a fun new option for open-class pump players.

[Levi]

Really great video! Yeah... I'll be sticking with my snipers and phantoms... I hope they are receptive to the feedback and chose to go back and fix this thing. I was expecting better after the thumper mess.

[RuleOfSines]

Kit I'll have to look closer at that. Unlike the Thumper, this does not have any oring sealing the breech mechanism, not enough material on the nose to add one either unforunately.

XEMON its chunkier, pump action isn't as smooth, barrel is wobbly, can't feed rounds into the tube properly. Honestly I'd rather just have the Thumper back, with whatever fixes were made to the regulator.

[XEMON]

In which way?
From your videos there is a few things that makes me sad/disappointed ... You'd think they would have learned a bit more from the thumper ...

I'm waiting for one to pop up "used/not working" to compare it to he thumper 😁

[Kit]

From watching the shooting part of the video. There's a lot of blow by up the feed neck. You can see the balls slamming back. That may be cracking the balls in the stack and causing the breaks.

[RuleOfSines]

No it really doesn't, in a few ways this is actually a step down from the Thumper.

[XEMON]

This doesn't bow well for a new marker (especially with the history of the thumper ...)

[RuleOfSines]

Part 2: I actually shoot it this time, or try to. It doesn't go well.

[Timefreak17]

When I get home, I will measure my piston...that won't be for a month

[AnarchicArctic]

Interesting…I wonder how much variance there is between the pistons, or if they could all use a shave

[RuleOfSines]

Possible that it would help, but you'd be stretching it on there which it wouldn't be happy about. I think the diameter of the oring groove + the oring cross section is more suited to a static application than a dynamic one. I haven't taken all the measurements and checked the parker oring handbook yet though. Important to note also this may not apply to all Phoenix', machining could potentially vary enough from marker to marker.

[Timefreak17]

For those of us without the machining tools; would a smaller diameter o-ring solve this?
Or did you have to take off a good amount of material?

[RuleOfSines]

Got mine working again, I had to turn down the rear oring groove in the piston. The fitment was way too tight and made the piston hard to move without gobs of grease. Even with gobs of grease, it was slow to return and sometimes unable to actually return fully at all. Now it snaps shut after cocking. The front oring could maybe use the same treatment, but I’m going to hold off on that one for the moment.