So from what iv read a laz valve won't work in a blow back unless it's a pump, was fiddling with my sentinal and had the thought of putting one in it cause it has a 11/16 bottom bore
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I'm not sure why anyone would think it would work in a blowback. It's an Autococker valve. There's no blowback outlet on the valve pin, or the valve face.Comment
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So I have numbers.
Using a Trilogy autococker with an A1 delrin bolt, the stock hammer, an SLPS hammer spring with the IVG screwed all the way in and a CP Reg at 200 psi, using a .687 freak insert with some leftovers from season's past, I was able to get 5 full fills of a speedster loader out of a 68 ci tank at 4500 psi and was down to 1500 psi when I was out of paint. That's roughly half a case of paint, with room to breathe.
I also was able to drop the LPR pressure significantly, I was 1 and 1/2 turns out from finger tight on the stock LPR (I bought a banjo bolt from air soldier so I could unscrew the hose barb without having to remove the hose. Saved me a ton of time in tuning).
I think the resale value on trilogies is about to spike.
Sorry I didn't think to get video. I only had my phone on me, and it does not take pretty video.Comment
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ACParts had some listed in stock so I picked one up with an order.
Probably going in a Trilogy build, too.Comment
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Anyone know if this would work in an SS-25?
EDIT: I’m going to make it work in an SS-25.Last edited by Menso; 12-10-2023, 11:18 AM.Comment
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It fit! Had to steal the valve nut off my T2 and file it down a little as the stock one was too long. Threw in a Jenni Kraig hammer and the main spring it came with. Pump stroke went from ~6.1 pounds to ~3.7(!). IVG flush. Sidewinder set to a little under 200psi. Don’t have a chrono at home but eyeballing it I’m at or around 300fps and the sound signature sounds like a nice clean pop, much more satisfying to the ears than stock. Wild. Can’t wait to hit the field with it.
I only wish I could throw this in my T2.Comment
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Did some compares the other night in an AKA Ehm. CCM and AKA 11/16” valves were on par with each other, with the Lazarus gained 30 feet per second at the same dwell and pressures.
Had to do a little modification to the hammer but very happy with how it shoots. Probably will be installing these in more of my markers.Comment
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"I can’t see a valve playing a role in it. " - it's back pressure dependent, so whatever happens down stream will affect the dwell. I am curious if the settling time will be affected by the temp drop during sustained rate of fire. -
My understanding, then, is that this indicates a much wider (or smoother, thus wider vena contracta) opening than the other valves? Easier for the air in front of the valve to go straight in, versus "around" a wide cup seal, perhaps.
I'm curious what this does for efficiency. The hammer-spring marker tests seem to be all about opening force, but this is more about flow when open. I bet you could also drop LPR pressure given the autococker main spring tests. -
Hooptie, they came with some CCM valves I have. Hard to find grub screws, not even McMaster has them.
@latches, yeah I can see what you’re saying. I have a reg recharge logger at 1,000hz and can mess around with it.
@flyweight, I had a related thought. Vikings are known for excellent efficiency for various reasons. I’ve noticed the valve spring is especially heavy in them. Potentially making sure the poppet valve closes very quickly reduces the amount of wasted air.
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I thought maybe I had 1 too many of my wife’s gummies last night, but installed 3 Lazarus valves in Vikings and observed ~60 fps gain on each with no other changes. Another individual on the AKA fb page saw similar gains. Insane to me. No comment on efficiency until I get to a field this spring.
Gloss silver Viking +63 fps
Dust silver Viking +60 fps
Valhalla Viking +59 fpsComment
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What light weight hammer options are available for these valves without going plastic?Comment
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What's wrong with plastic?Originally posted by Chuck E Ducky View Post
Has anyone ever made autococker hammers out of HDPE?Comment
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A plastic hammer with a steel core/face sounds like a good way to make a lightweight hammer.
But I have trouble understanding the benefit to using a lightweight hammer. Doesn't that usually require an increase in spring stiffness?
I guess my underlying question is: how do you determine the hammer specs needed to slam open a poppet valve? Is it a set amount of energy? Or momentum? -
Thing is, the break force on the pin for the lazarus is so low, I wouldnt figure it would deform the plastic. But this is my anecdotal guess from manually opening the valve with my finger. I have a lazarus, and a JC in baggies.
I ponder back to the incredible wear properties of the tippmann cyclone ratchet. -
tyronejk I wasn’t talking about adding an entire nail just the head cut down and epoxy in. It would add a lil weight to it but make the valve contact area more durable. You could probably find some kind of small aluminum cap you could do the same thing with. Just brainstorming how to make it more durable or fix it if it ever becomes an issue.
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Just chiming in on the hype train lol. I own a resi and installed the laz valve. Picked up the Jenny Craig hammer and spring and valve set screw from Angry and was having submarine effect like crazy. This was after finding out my reg severely needed a rebuild lol. Well, we set the guns HPR to 200 and IVG buried and got to 260. Knew we were close. Gave up after getting it out of whack messing with it and just grabbed one of the other guns I brought with me and played the rest of the day. Got home and put the stock resi IVG spring in and I’m shooting 300 with the IVG 1 full turn in and HPR one full turn out from bottomed out, as in reducing pressure or in all the way, not sure how to word it. I need to build a reg tester so I can tune better from actual pressures not just assumptions. I talked to angry and im a little upset with him. He did not educate me before my purchase that his kit did not work with the resi even though I told him I was looking for his kit for the resi. What Evs, I moved on but need that info out there for other people to know. Basically, if you have a resi get the laz valve, angry’s Jenny hammer and go have fun. There’s a lot less forward-slamming kick. Smoother action. Hope to get out again to really play with it more.Last edited by skully/a5; 03-04-2024, 07:17 PM.Comment
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This is pretty confusing because the valve does work with resurrections. It sounds like you have something else going on.
Paint bore matched? orings on the bolt fit properly? timed correctly? regulator assembled correctly?
The ressy stock reg has large jumps in pressure with adjustment. I would be willing to bet that if you turn 1/8 turns outward that you will still be able to get it to shoot correctly. -
Im not sure what you're talking about. I said it's working. the only thing that doesn't work in Angry's kit is the smaller spring. it doesn't create enough force to open the valve long enough unless the IVG is buried but was only able to get to 260. Angrys delrin hammer along with resi stock IVG spring and laz valve is shooting awesome.Last edited by skully/a5; 03-04-2024, 07:18 PM. Reason: new to website and dont know how to reply to someone's comment.
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I was battling small leaks in most of my markers with the Lazarus. I did the following to all of them and have zero leaks now. Might help someone down the road.
009 70 in place of the u-cup seal (Jason Antle’s recommendation)
015 x-rings in place of the body orings
Added a little dow 33 as some came dry
Drop of 243 medium locker on the cap and the set screw (nothing to do with the leaks)Comment
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I also had some leaks with a Lazarus valve in my Ressy but it was easily solved by replacing the body orings with 015/90s. My gun has a regular set screw for valve retention and I think the force of the screw was compressing the original 70 duro orings too tight opposite the screw.
I haven't had any issues with the internal orings though. -
I had issues with the body orings popping due to adjusting the HPR reg to high, this was after finding out my HPR reg was shot and all the orings and cupseal had failed lol. it seems like at a certain PSI it would pop. I think the biggest thing is to lube the piss out of the orings to make sure when sliding in the valve that they stay in place. I noticed at least on mine it wants to roll out. This was on a resi. Roger I also did the 9 oring also. I had issues one side of the cup seal would roll on itself causing it to bind and not fully open.
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Oring sizes per Billy Wing's live video.
90D-011 oring cupseal
front is ucup seal 008, can run 008 standard (Sounds like this is actually a 009)
111 bumper oring
I am not sure on the small stem oring. BeardedWorks.com (Your Inception Designs and Shocktech Dealer)
BW Youtube
BW Ebay
BW Email
I buy Automags and Mag Parts also.Comment
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Quick video showing my A4 Angel shooting my Lazarus valve. Velocity was a bit inconsistent, but paint was also not great. Was getting simalr fps swings in my Droid, which is normally 3-4 fps swing with good paint. Lot more testing to do, playing with dwell, and tossing my stock valve back in (I use a lightened valve spring), to compare.
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