ATF Bans Consumer Grade Smoke Grenades

[Trbo323]

Bummer. I kind of liked them at big games and it was a way for local fields to make a little more money.

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[OpusX]

[SignOfZeta]

Good. They barely do anything but generate revenue anyway and I sort of like fresh air when I’m in the woods.

[NONOBLITUS]

Boooo they are cool for big games. Let’s just keep banning everything that people enjoy. My son in some fun smoke

[Chuck E Ducky]

Remember the days you could bring your own! I remember having a bandleader full of the XL ones. It was so cool to see in the footage that year. If you look back in the YouTube videos there is a noticeable difference in the amount of smoke. One year we all bought cases of them and went HAM. That was the first year I made it over the mounds before the Germans could cross with a few good men.

[RuleOfSines]

Is that even within the ATFs authority? I thought they were fancy police, enforcement only, not new regulation.

[MrBarraclough]

It's technically not a new regulation. Existing regulations would actually ban these smoke grenades anyway if not for an exemption the ATF granted. This new action by the ATF is simply to rescind the exemptions for those types of grenades.

And ATF does have a certain amount of regulatory authority. They just have to follow the usual notice and comment procedures for promulgating new regs. This action isn't governed by those procedures though since it is simply the recission of a prior exemption to existing regs.

[BrickHaus]

Leave it to our goverment to make more bad policies. I'm one who loves smokes, weather I'm tossing em or I'm in it. Sure it's probably pure cancer. But the immersion factor is worth it to me.

When I was on a team we were pretty good at popping smoke and using it to move through bare patches of the woods that lacked cover. It works super well. Meaning we walked our own clouds a lot. It got us the upper hand more than once.

I still have one marine safety smoke left. They are orange steel cans and they smoke real nice for a long time. Orange smoke also. It's probably worse than an eg Haha.

[SR_matt]

Not having smoke at big events will be a bit disappointing but I am not sure if this truly bans all smoke grenades or if the ones that the exemption was revoked for are only part of the available ones on the market.

my bigger concern is that it seems like emergency smoke flares were part of the items no longer exempted. That seems like it’s going to pose an issue for maritime safety.

[Murph]

Good riddance.

[Carp]

Y'all are triggering horrible flashbacks to a 2006 Carter's Commando EMR castle defense....the orange smoke, the thick orange smoke is in the walls, it smells and tastes awful....make it stop!

What group of idiots had that great idea?

[Chuck E Ducky]

I was there for that on the attacking side. The battle for the ramps were so intense. That’s when Castle was fun.

[coyote]

Lockdown allowed smoke at our games. In fact we had a remote smoke station that was part of some player missions.

We had very clear parameters on the use of smoke in the safety briefing. On top of that we had fire extinguishers on field as a safety measure.

ATF...I have nothing nice to write.

[Trbo323]

Is that even within the ATFs authority? I thought they were fancy police, enforcement only, not new regulation.

That's actually a pretty good question. I've always been under the impression that they are considered class c consumer grade fireworks and atf has no authority over those. Once something is OUTSIDE class c then they have authority. This is why m80s and m1000s get your fireworks stand a nice visit from the atf if you are found to be selling them because those are considered an explosive device on tbe federal level. but if let's say you are in my state of Washington where bottle rockets are illegal on a state level, if you are found to be selling there's no atf, local police at Best, but no atf visits.

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[JonM]

The difference in this case is that the ATF isn't imposing a new regulation, but rather rescinding an exemption to an already existing regulation.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I just Sent EG an Email to get some clarity on the topic. I’m curious if this even effects is as PB players or just limits our ability to buy the big military grade ones.

You can easily make your own with off the shelf products and some crayons for color. But that’s a discussion for another day.

[MrBarraclough]

I had the following email exchange with Enola Gaye this morning.

Me:

Were any of your products not impacted by the ATF rescinding those SED exemptions?
From the table included in the ATF's announcement, it looks like all variants of the EG18 are now unavailable to unlicensed consumers. What is the status of the TP40 and WP40? Or the twin vent?
I checked the DOT database, and it looks like the EX number application for the WP40 was denied earlier this year anyway.
Sorry to see that ATF has essentially screwed you.

EG's response:

All our products are legal to buy and use. We are the only Smoke Grenade company with current ATF exemptions. Although ATF did change a few of our exemptions we currently hold the following ATF exemptions that include EG25, WP40, TP40, Twin Vent, Twin Vent 2 and EG18. We keep working with the authorities to ensure the safe and legal use of our products for the benefit of all who enjoy them.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of EG's response. The table included with the ATF's announcement very clearly identified "EG18X" among the products for which the exemption was rescinded. I had assumed that the "X" affix was simply a variable placeholder and not a specific model since there is a long list of EG18 variants with different letter designations, but from looking at the DOT database it appears that there is an entire EG18X series. So perhaps only the EG18X series had its exemption rescinded and other EG18 variants might be unaffected.

Perhaps it may be the case that the ATF's recent action affects only a small set of specific products and we should not assume a broader application.

If anyone wants to look up the EX and UN numbers for particular products, here is the link to the DOT search page.

[MrBarraclough]

That's actually a pretty good question. I've always been under the impression that they are considered class c consumer grade fireworks and atf has no authority over those. Once something is OUTSIDE class c then they have authority. This is why m80s and m1000s get your fireworks stand a nice visit from the atf if you are found to be selling them because those are considered an explosive device on tbe federal level. but if let's say you are in my state of Washington where bottle rockets are illegal on a state level, if you are found to be selling there's no atf, local police at Best, but no atf visits.

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Smoke grenades aren't class C like you'd get at fireworks stands. ATF has authority to regulate them.

ATF is not just an enforcement agency. They have statutory authority to promulgate regulations, pursuant to those specific statutory grants of authority. Normal regulations are created by following certain notice and comment procedures. But where the regulation already exists and an exemption has been granted, they can rescind that exemption without having to go through notice and comment.

An analogous example is the DEA. Most people think of law enforcement officers in raid jackets when they see or hear "DEA," but there's a whole regulatory side to that entity as well. DEA regulates the manufacture, storage, transport, and distribution of drugs and their chemical components. They even set production quotas for some drugs. A big part of the current shortage of ADHD meds is the DEA setting production quotas too low.

[Melrosejedi]

Well this is interesting. The government once again has nothing better to do than regulate smoke grenades,what a joke.im pretty sure this nation has bigger fish to fry, but as one said”low hanging fruit”. The typical response from people i’m reading is whether or not they like smoke grenades? The real issue is should our government be concerned or regulating this matter. Im watching our government become way to infringing on my freedoms,and it’s concerning. So like smoke or not,why are they doing it. Personally i carry them in big games but rarely use them. I do think they add some cool effects, but smoke Inhalation does suck. Iwouldn’t change it though.

[JonM]

Trying to remain apolitical, there was a recent wildfire in California started as a result of a smoke grenade at a gender reveal that burned down 23,000 acres, destroyed twenty buildings, and killed a firefighter. I’m not condoning the ATF’s response here, but I can understand their thought processes. People are by and large stupid and irresponsible and this is why we can’t have nice things.