Serious allegations leveled at Dave "Youngblood" DeHaan and DYE in lawsuit

[uv_halo]

Not speaking to the merits of the case here but, rather the back and forth about the role of the public in all of this. It's unfortunate that in today's age there are two courts- the court of law and the court of public opinion. These days, in our age of social media-fueled news cycle, it's entirely possible to rightfully win one of those courts and thoroughly lose the other to the ruin of ones life. While neither system is perfect, I have more faith in the former than the latter, especially given all of the crazy ideas (politics, conspiracies, etc) that get the most traction in public.

[DocsMachine]

You’re right, that’s the LEGAL default, individuals are not courts of law and under no obligation to avoid having their own opinion on someone.

-Again, I'm not rendering an opinion on the DYE thing either way. BUT... if it turns out the allegations are false, or even just greatly exaggerated, his name has already been dragged through the mud. That's a stain that can never be erased, regardless of the truth of the matter.

Yes, if they ARE true, he deserves every stain, and then some.

Regarding people being proven innocent, I’m assuming you believe O.J. was innocent then? Casey Anthony?

-Wait, what? Just because I prefer to lean "innocent until proven guilty", one of the founding precepts of the American legal system, that therefore I believe everyone who's ever been accused of anything, is innocent and wrongfully convicted? Please.

Every case is different. Some people are wrongfully accused, and wrongfully convicted. Some are wrongfully accused, but exonerated in court. Some were accused, and convicted in court. And some have been accused and exonerated, despite being guilty.

Kavenaugh is an especially strange example since he was never subjected to a criminal trial, so he doesn’t even have that legal “proof.” He also suffered no actual repercussions from it.

-Except you can still find plenty of people that will gladly tell you he "got away with rape", based on nothing but those flimsy newspaper accounts. Just as you can find plenty of people that do, in fact, think OJ was innocent, and set up by a racist cop.

Again, I am not 'defending' Dave, but neither am I 'accusing' him. I've never met the guy, have never heard any rumors, myself, and apart from liking some of the custom markers he's had over the years, he's never been more than just some name in the magazines to me.

Doc.

[ford]

A clip I've been reminded of is Bob talking about that PSP charging vendor debacle 9 YEARS AGO

This was not too long after I came back to the sport and I was really confused by Bob's comment (2 minute mark), "... The world and God will figure this out, when it's all done..."

I assumed Bob was being a little dramatic about the vendor fee debacle but now you have to wonder if this was related?

You 'innocent until proven guilty' minders... Yes, no one is arguing a better system is just to let rumor and happen-stance rule the day.

My concern and I think why Dye is named in the lawsuit is how long can you hide behind ignorance and 'innocent until proven guilty' if you have a rumored child groomer in your midst?

And look, let me call out. I'm frustrated because when I came back I was told about crazy rumors surrounding Youngblood and wrote them off. I assumed if there was real validity to them the industry would regulate itself and get him out of a position of power... In retrospect that's pretty stupid to think.

[Kp2 Hero]

I also am not defending Dave either , however I agree with the concept of innocent until proven guilty .
The allegations may very well be true , I never said they weren’t . We shall see the outcome .
The idea of attacking one another here on this forum simply because some of us aren’t ready to burn someone at the stake will accomplish nothing . Especially considering the fact that I doubt anyone on this forum supports wrongdoing or despicable acts .


Something that should at least be considered in regards to a major investigation and court case from the 1980’s that I remember . regarding allegations about abuse at the McMartens preschool . After seven years of trials as well as the court of public opinion personally attacking the accused . Ultimately the charges were dropped due to evidence that investigators were coercing and leading the child witnesses statements . The case fell apart as some of the testimony from The kids veered into bizarre , such as children being taken by hot air balloon by witches and abusing elephants from what I remember .
Needless to say the veracity of the investigations participants from detectives , witnesses and prosecutors was seriously damaged

[Jivesauce]

[QUOTE=DocsMachine;n569430]

-Wait, what? Just because I prefer to lean "innocent until proven guilty", one of the founding precepts of the American legal system, that therefore I believe everyone who's ever been accused of anything, is innocent and wrongfully convicted? Please.

I’m not sure how you came up with that interpretation of my post, but I’ll clarify. The point I was making is you were originally presenting the idea that winning a legal case means someone has been “proven innocent” and therefore them being publicly vilified was automatically unfair. I was showing you obvious examples where that does not appear to be the case. As you pointed out, if you don’t like those examples there are many, many other cases both of people being wrongfully accused, or found innocent when we later determined they were guilty, I just went with a couple well known ones.

Again, “innocent until proven guilty” is a legal concept that you’re trying to apply to people’s opinion. The court certainly needs to hear a criminal case with a presumption of innocence. The public is not a court of law, and this particular case isn’t even a criminal trial. People are allowed to say they think the details of a case make someone look like a bad person, just like others are allowed to say they don’t agree, very much like you and I do on the Kavanaugh situation (which was significantly more than a “newspaper story” but I won’t get into it). There’s another founding principle of our country that allows us to do that!

The reason people have started speaking publicly about sexual assault is because the legal system has SO OFTEN failed them in the past. The only way many have been able to find any kind of justice is by naming their rapists and warning the public about those people. I am not advocating for vigilante justice here, but the idea that people should just shut up and trust the legal process is woefully naive. There certainly need to be repercussions for those that can be proven to have made false accusations, but silencing support for accusers of sexual assault isn’t the solution. If you have never known anyone in your life that has been sexually assaulted and failed to find justice, I’m glad for you, but I suspect it’s more common than you’d like to think.

Look, I won’t respond anymore since I know this isn’t the place for this and I’m likely just annoying everyone, but it just irritates me to so often see people say, “whoa whoa whoa innocent until proven guilty, don’t say anything bad about that person,” while the Brock Turner’s of the world walk free with a slap on the wrist because the judge didn’t want to damage a promising young man’s swimming career! The legal system has not earned the trust of sexual assault victims, and the founding precepts haven’t done a lot of good for those people. Please, indeed.

[DocsMachine]

Actually, it was more "this case does not equal that case". Because I was saying maybe we ought to pump the brakes a bit here- or at least not stomp quite so hard on the accellerator- I was therefore also of the opinion that OJ was innocent? That's apples to kumquats.

And, while I agree that all too many people have gotten away with sexual assault- why did it take so long for those movie moguls to get nailed?- the fact is, the "court of public opinion" tries, convicts and executes, regardless of the truth. People have committed suicide because the stain of a wrongful accusation could never be washed off.

Either way it's not a very good situation.

Doc.

[Jivesauce]

Either way it's not a very good situation.

Doc.

We can certainly agree on that, Doc

[k_obeastly]

anxiously waiting for the time when this is old enough news that we can make jokes

[Riot]

I bet that's what he said before diddling those kids...

(also, this is now my second joke, so I think you're good.)

[martix_agent]

anxiously waiting for the time when this is old enough news that we can make jokes

Honestly, there’s never enough time. What sexual assault does to people, especially kids, can ruin/ alter their entire lives.