Rifled barrel for fsr

[Gsav22]

Would like to buy a rifled barrel around a 685 or a 686 bore

[coyote]

Threaded for what marker sir?

[Trbo323]

Lol I was just talking about this with Maxwell

I'm not convinced the rifled barrels are all they are cracked up to be. I figured companies like hammerhead would match the rifling to the fsr but they didn't. The fsr has way more "fins" than the barrel has rifling. Combine that with the back end of the fsr being hard plastic and I don't see how the rifling is supposed to grab the round to spin it. I think it's a lot of hype and to my knowledge nobody has actually done accuracy testing with FSR to see if there is a difference

I'm running a freak xl currently and was getting about a, idk, call it 16" spread at 90 yards. This is with me holding the marker though, it wasn't clamped down.

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[Maxwell]

I'm going to ask around and see if I can find a way to do a legitimate accuracy test for them if I can borrow some barrels. That's something I'd enjoy doing.

[nak81783]

Hellion360 Assuming OP wants AC threads, is the barrel in this thread still available? https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...ng-asa-nemesis

uv_halo For ballistics and accuracy testing.

[uv_halo]

Lol I was just talking about this with Maxwell

I'm not convinced the rifled barrels are all they are cracked up to be. I figured companies like hammerhead would match the rifling to the fsr but they didn't. The fsr has way more "fins" than the barrel has rifling. Combine that with the back end of the fsr being hard plastic and I don't see how the rifling is supposed to grab the round to spin it. I think it's a lot of hype and to my knowledge nobody has actually done accuracy testing with FSR to see if there is a difference

I'm running a freak xl currently and was getting about a, idk, call it 16" spread at 90 yards. This is with me holding the marker though, it wasn't clamped down.

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

Yes, properly rifled barrels are "what they are cracked up to be". Consider the Indoor, bench mounted testing performance difference between the following barrels at 75ft (via a central 50% of shot spread diameter after at least 20shots through each barrel):

• 9" LAPCO .690 Smoothbore:19.72"
• 9" LAPCO/Tiberius .683 Rifled: 9.6"
• 16" LAPCO .690 Smoothbore: 16.9"
• 16" LAPCO/Tiberius .683 Rifled: 5.0"
• 14" Hammerhead .688 Rifled: 5.56"

I bought all of the barrels in this test and, I provided most if not all of the rounds for the testing, and I didn't (and still don't) have any ties to the paintball industry.

I covered all of this (in 2013) before the MCB server sabotage, and I even re-posted the summary of the test in the current First Strike sub-forum and it's stickied....

I seriously doubt you're getting 16" spread at 90 yds, outdoors, with a handheld marker and a smoothbore barrel. Not when in ideal conditions, a smoothbore manages 17-19" at 75ft.

As for the rifling itself in comparison to the fins:

The twist rate of all of the barrels (Hammerhead, LAPCO, and even the Armson (wrong direction)) is simply based on the diameter and mass of the projectile, since that hasn't changed, they believed there was no reason to change the twist rate. The shell is not like a jacketed bullet in that the grooves lock onto the projectile. In the .683 rifled barrels, there is very slight shaving, enough so that after about 100rds without cleaning, you will seize a round in the barrel. Given the fact that the Hammerhead barrel displays a very similar performance to the 16" LAPCO/ Tiberius barrel, it would appear that the Hammerhead, while looser (loose enough to not cause fouling), still spins the round enough for a very significant benefit.

The LAPCO/Tiberius barrel (I provided to Simon Manike) was proven to pre-spin the projectile with high speed video (by Simon):

Note: The muzzle is at the 0-point on the ruler (just offscreen) and the first number visible on the left is 1". You probably will need to turn down the playback speed to make any sense of it.

The pre-spinning of the projectile simply stabilizes the round in the barrel before it interacts with the atmosphere. I suspect that this helps balance the fill (because there is usually a tiny air bubble, and two different viscosity of materials in there). Without rotation in the barrel, the rounds take longer to spin up and gyroscopically stabilize themselves. Looking at the data, it appears that the 9" rifled barrel isn't quite fully stabilizing, given that it certainly helps the accuracy but, not as much as the longer barrels.

The fins do have a higher twist rate than is necessary. I believe that this is because they are not 100% effective in turning the drag into rotational motion. In other words, they slip a bit as they spin up. I mean, we're talking about fins just a few millimeters in height.

Carmatech opted to do a higher twist rate and, usage of a spline drive for better grip while still being .685. This twist rate is known to cause precession in that the round consistently impacts to the right of the bore axis. David Williams asked me personally if I experienced this (he knew of my work on FS Round study) and I confirmed it.

EDIT TO ADD:

I had a vague memory of explaining this to you before. Here it is right here: At this point, I'm wondering if you're just willfully denying the information.

[Trbo323]

Yes, properly rifled barrels are "what they are cracked up to be". Consider the Indoor, bench mounted testing performance difference between the following barrels at 75ft (via a central 50% of shot spread diameter after at least 20shots through each barrel):

• 9" LAPCO .690 Smoothbore:19.72"
• 9" LAPCO/Tiberius .683 Rifled: 9.6"
• 16" LAPCO .690 Smoothbore: 16.9"
• 16" LAPCO/Tiberius .683 Rifled: 5.0"
• 14" Hammerhead .688 Rifled: 5.56"

I bought all of the barrels in this test and, I provided most if not all of the rounds for the testing, and I didn't (and still don't) have any ties to the paintball industry.

I covered all of this (in 2013) before the MCB server sabotage, and I even re-posted the summary of the test in the current First Strike sub-forum and it's stickied....

I seriously doubt you're getting 16" spread at 90 yds, outdoors, with a handheld marker and a smoothbore barrel. Not when in ideal conditions, a smoothbore manages 17-19" at 75ft.

As for the rifling itself in comparison to the fins:

The twist rate of all of the barrels (Hammerhead, LAPCO, and even the Armson (wrong direction)) is simply based on the diameter and mass of the projectile, since that hasn't changed, they believed there was no reason to change the twist rate. The shell is not like a jacketed bullet in that the grooves lock onto the projectile. In the .683 rifled barrels, there is very slight shaving, enough so that after about 100rds without cleaning, you will seize a round in the barrel. Given the fact that the Hammerhead barrel displays a very similar performance to the 16" LAPCO/ Tiberius barrel, it would appear that the Hammerhead, while looser (loose enough to not cause fouling), still spins the round enough for a very significant benefit.

The LAPCO/Tiberius barrel (I provided to Simon Manike) was proven to pre-spin the projectile with high speed video (by Simon):

Note: The muzzle is at the 0-point on the ruler (just offscreen) and the first number visible on the left is 1". You probably will need to turn down the playback speed to make any sense of it.

The pre-spinning of the projectile simply stabilizes the round in the barrel before it interacts with the atmosphere. I suspect that this helps balance the fill (because there is usually a tiny air bubble, and two different viscosity of materials in there). Without rotation in the barrel, the rounds take longer to spin up and gyroscopically stabilize themselves. Looking at the data, it appears that the 9" rifled barrel isn't quite fully stabilizing, given that it certainly helps the accuracy but, not as much as the longer barrels.

The fins do have a higher twist rate than is necessary. I believe that this is because they are not 100% effective in turning the drag into rotational motion. In other words, they slip a bit as they spin up. I mean, we're talking about fins just a few millimeters in height.

Carmatech opted to do a higher twist rate and, usage of a spline drive for better grip while still being .685. This twist rate is known to cause precession in that the round consistently impacts to the right of the bore axis. David Williams asked me personally if I experienced this (he knew of my work on FS Round study) and I confirmed it.

EDIT TO ADD:

I had a vague memory of explaining this to you before. Here it is right here: At this point, I'm wondering if you're just willfully denying the information.

Your information maybe. Our two experiences don't line up to tell one story. Based on your info I should have been seeing much worse accuracy than I was but that wasn't the case. So either I had about 50 shots in a row of the luckiest FSR or your data isn't telling the whole story. I was shooting at over triple your range but getting groupings that were the same as your smoothbore barrels. Extrapolating out your ranges my accuracy was very close to what I would expect your rifled barrels tests to show at the same range.

Now granted no I wasn't setting out to do some accuracy test, I was mainly sighting in my scope but it really didn't need much adjustment so I shot through 2 mags just for kicks and was finding everything was very repeatable. We hung a mask on the field netting towards a corner and I went to the opposite corner. The nice thing about the netting is you could see pretty easy where the paint was impacting if it didn't hit the mask.

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[uv_halo]

Your information maybe. Our two experiences don't line up to tell one story. Based on your info I should have been seeing much worse accuracy than I was but that wasn't the case. So either I had about 50 shots in a row of the luckiest FSR or your data isn't telling the whole story. I was shooting at over triple your range but getting groupings that were the same as your smoothbore barrels. Extrapolating out your ranges my accuracy was very close to what I would expect your rifled barrels tests to show at the same range.

Now granted no I wasn't setting out to do some accuracy test, I was mainly sighting in my scope but it really didn't need much adjustment so I shot through 2 mags just for kicks and was finding everything was very repeatable. We hung a mask on the field netting towards a corner and I went to the opposite corner. The nice thing about the netting is you could see pretty easy where the paint was impacting if it didn't hit the mask.

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Your anecdotal "evidence" is noted. I would also note that a very prominent member of this forum (at least before the sabotage, can't say for certain if he's been back since) was telling folks that special, magic, flex-honing, would improve the accuracy of ANY barrel, and that if you fired enough shots at a wall from a given distance and fixed point of aim, you will end up with a donut shaped impact pattern,,, That's all anecdotal too.

[Trbo323]

I have a test in mind to say once and for all if these barrels are actually spinning the FSR. No fancy high speed cameras needed.

It won't say anything for accuracy though but it should prove if the rifling itself is doing anything

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[uv_halo]

I have a test in mind to say once and for all if these barrels are actually spinning the FSR. No fancy high speed cameras needed.

It won't say anything for accuracy though but it should prove if the rifling itself is doing anything

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I'm curious as to what your approach would be. FYI, the LAPCO/Tiberius .683 rifling pattern is tight enough that you actually have to push the round through the barrel, if your pusher has a low enough friction tip, you will see that it rotates. In a .688 Hammerhead, the ball will slide through on it's own and, you will see that it rotates as it moves through the barrel.

[NONOBLITUS]

If you play then you see it works. Plain and simple

[Chuck E Ducky]

I have no idea what barrel is on my first strike marker but it’s rifled and shoots super accurate. At regular paintball distance it’s extremely accurate. Almost no side to side variations. They stay super flat so threading them through windows and holes in bunkers make them Ruthless to use. I highly recommend a good rifled barrel to shoot them.

You can use a smooth bore but the rifled barrels work way better. It’s a noticeable difference especially the farther you reach out.

Also if you take the time to clean up the casting nipple on the tips of the FS round they shoot way more consistent.

At range with an opponents full silhouette a first strike and a rifle barrel, you can choose where you want to place it, with a standard paintball your aiming center of mass and hope it stays true.