Running air through a rail

[Euphie]

So here is the problem:
A: I have an Automag Kam 86 v2 frame I want as a pneumag
B: I want this to be a sleeper setup
C: I want to use an Air America Apocalypse instead of an ASA

so keeping in mind these three points I have a theory on how to go about this but, I don’t have all the details down and perhaps someone here has an idea. So essentially the obvious method is to take the 1.8K burst disc out of the top of the regulator and either use a fitting or push a gasket into it and relocate a Burst disc into a T fitting on the output gauge

the problem I have is, the kam86 frame doesn’t have a rail, I have a long Air America rail and shorter micro rails, but either one as best I can figure I would have to find a way to get air through the rail itself.

so how would you go about the problem?

[BrickHaus]

Not gonna lie. I wouldn't move the 1.8k burst disk to achieve this myself. . Ive recently learned about how those disks are torqued actually effects their ability to operate. They also bottom out in the reg body to operate, and a T fitting isn't going to provide the proper shoulder to bottom out on, so I'd try to leave it put.



But Id take a note from the empire relay on a tm series marker for how to do it.

I can snap some pics of my mechd ion later.


Id have a machinists dovetail the rail, and put a tapped through hole on it that takes the relay air through fitting.

The relay air through fitting needs a small boss on the end to seal to the regulator. ( or similar custom fitting.

Then said machinists would need to make a small bore in the face of the reg, then cross drill a small hole from the bottom of that bore to the regulated air chamber.

[BrickHaus]

I just looked up the kam 86 frame. Yeah I don't think you have enough meat to do what I suggested.. id hate to say it, but for the sake of ease, Id buy a Ninja SHP regulator for a tank, ditch the AA reg, and tap a normal asa like everyone else seems to do with them.

[BrickHaus]

I guess you could mod the face of the regulator like a relay to have that small cross drilled hole, and bore with an o ring.

Then drill the rail exactly where the 1/8th hole in the frame is, then the tricky part would be to tap the rail with it mounted to the frame. but feed the tap from inside of the frame, using its threads to find your lead point and allow you to thread through both units at once.

You would need a 1/8 NPS tap ( straight threads.) And you may have to tap the frame first to cut the taper out of the threads there.

Then make a custom air through tube thats 1/8 NPS on the OD with a small boss to seat into the regulator.

[Euphie]

BrickHaus I am not super worried about the relocation of the burst disc as the idea was to mount it on top of an 1/8" NPT plug that had a hole drilled through it sandwiched with the nut that puts tension on it. The Air America burst discs are absolutely tiny, just a piece of brass with a nut that screws overtop of it, I was under the impression that it is 1/8" NPS (I hadn't checked but, I remember being told that) so I would have to use something as a base to it to prevent it from getting too tight to where I couldn't get the retaining nut over the plate off. If I am mistaken, it should be pretty easy to simply make a fitting that would work out of brass though honestly if I had to make my own I think I would go with a modern style burst disc rather than these metal plates. Though I would love to see torque figures on how hard these things are supposed to be pressed against their shoulder, because I would like to keep it proper, especially if using the original burst discs as I have no idea where to buy those little brass plates

Still I suppose if the air comes from the burst disc hole or right in front of it with my own hole it doesn't make too big of a difference, as the real primary issue is how to get that air from the regulator through that rail. I hadn't really considered trying to tap right through the rail, the documentation on the Kam 86 suggests it is already setup for 1/8" NPS, so what you are suggesting may be a bit more practical. I don't have a lathe, but it shouldn't be all that hard to trim a rod of brass or aluminum to the right length and drill an air hole thorough it. My flow requirements ought to be really low as the MPA-3 can't take much air to move.

One question though, rather than try and tap the rail, couldn't I just drill a hole through the rail, and use my longer custom air pipe to push against a gasket on the top of the regulator? if I milled flat edges into this air pipe it would give me something to wrench onto, and it should also mean that the pressure on whatever gasket I use to seal the air to the top of the regulator would help hold the rail in place no? If I am right then the only tool I would need that I don't have is an 1/8" NPS die, and some raw material to make it out of and some sort of gasket to seal the two holes together

I do have some structural integrity concerns putting a hole that big in a rail, especially made out of a soft metal like aluminum sliding on a stainless steel track, but no one makes a steel paintball rail do they? Perhaps it would be possible to do something like take a fitting that is 1/8" NPS, with some flat spots on top to wrench onto, but it transitions to something much smaller as it passes through the rail to the regulator, since if it is going to seal with a gasket between the regulator and the tube there is no need for the tube to have any specific threads where it meets the regulator

Also on the plus side, I am pretty sure I paid like $10 for this regulator I have more money invested into the pin and reg seat from Immortal Air than the regulator itself lol, so while I like it alot if I ruin it in a project, I am not going be crying, plenty of nice old adjustable regulators being thrown out basically these days

[Jonnydread]

i read the title as running through a wall and now I'm disappointed.

[BrickHaus]

You could pop it right through the rail I suppose. I guess I assumed keeping that stuff pressure rated would be hard, so tapping through both the rail and frame would support your air transfer tube.

It honestly sounds like you have a good plan figured out already. Id just run with it and see how it goes.

I honestly wouldn't worry about the strength. The dovetail contact will keep contact established end to end.

The annodizing makes aluminum a bit stronger

And you are correct on the frame being nps. I just assumed it was npt like most other items. I myself would still chase those threads through the rail just to make everything more rigid. But a through hole is likely just fine.

[cougar20th]

The M86's are designed for something like a modified CP asa.

My concern with removing and using the 1.8K port is what is the presure coming out of it. Will the LPR handle that input?

I know you side sleeper but when I designed those frames I added slots at the bottom of both panels so if needed you can run a asa mounted lpr and hose. Not a sleeper setup but functional.

[Euphie]

The 1.8K port has to be post regulated air or it would be 4500 psi, my understanding is the whole point of that burst disc is in case the regulator starts creeping, eventually the disc goes instead of air lines blowing up as eventually a creeping reg could get all the way to 4500 psi which few hoses and fittings are rated to. Still in case there is something I am unaware of; I would of course check the pressure with a gauge first it is possible it has some two stage regulation going on but, I can’t see how looking at the parts inside the regulator

Since it is post regulation most of the times the output pressure from that hole would be 0-1200 psi as I believe that is the range which the spring pack can accomplish. I know that the Palmer Rock according to their web site has a max input pressure of 4500 psi, but I do not actually know any of the specs of the smaller wgp regulators. It is possible some of them were only designed for 500 psi input pressure if they are newer, but older regulators are going to be made with vertical co2 in mind so will almost certainly have at least 1200 psi wp.

[Brokeass_baller]

It's likely that the burst disc port is plug threads, which is a bit different from standard NPT tapered pipe threading. So because it looks like it might fit ⅛"NPT doesn't mean it will. I would imagine the port would have to be drilled out and tapped.