Hardcore Mag and Cocker guy - super impressed by PE Emek

[nak81783]

So...soulless is relative.

Fair point.

When I’m up against veterans with electros, I ever so slightly prefer the Emek or Automag.

If the opponents are mostly guys like me, newbies, or renters, I’m more likely to grab the Autococker or STBB.

[nak81783]

For$400 it really should have a on/off Asa and perhaps a better barrel or a marker case.

Agreed. For $300 US (about $365 CAD), it would be great to get the POPS ASA, a better feedneck (at least a better, not-so-flimsy lever), at least a box with foam insert like the Gen 1 had, and a better barrel. The barrel is just ugly and loud; it actually shoots well. A straight tube with more porting would be fine.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Well $300 is the new $250 soon to be the new $400 that’s what happens when you split the dollar and give em out to everyone.

[iamthelazerviking]

Amen amen amen

[nak81783]

Well $300 is the new $250 soon to be the new $400 that’s what happens when you split the dollar and give em out to everyone.

True. I meant pre-pandemic dollars. I bought my Emek for $250 USD, so I'd be willing to pay an extra $50 USD for the items mentioned above.

[nak81783]

Perhaps factory upgrade packages then at a discount? They could offer various packages with on/off ASA, better feedneck, better barrel, case, etc. at diminishing returns, baiting people to just take the plunge for the M170R.

[Chuck E Ducky]

That’s just it. They do offer all those options it’s called the M170R and you pay for those features. It don’t make sense to build products that compete with currently produced product line. You can piece it together if you want. Soft tip bolt, pops, shaft barrel kit, adjustable trigger you can buy all that stuff separately if you want it. Or you can just buy a M170R that has most of that factory. To add a product between the Emek and M170R is pointless and they are having a hard time keeping up with demand now let alone an entire new product line that really only competes against itself.

I spent more money on my Emek then I did buying a M170R new.

[nak81783]

Fair enough.

On a slightly different note, would you do the Emek again the way you did, knowing it ended up more than an M170R?

[Jordan]

The whole personality thing or lack thereof only goes so far until you're just tearing up the field with one of these new guns. I recently got a CVO which I initially felt was "soulless" and kind of bland until...well until it was shooting people left and right on the field and doing so without breaking a single ball and with great accuracy. After that one day of play and finally having a gun that wasn't something I worked around but rather a tool on the field I was converted. Now in my eye it's the most beautiful gun I own just due to the memory of having such great games with it.

So...soulless is relative.

Thats why I like my Mini... it always chronies easily, is consistent and easy on paint, and it just works.

I get to focus on playing and not troubleshooting during the game or in the staging area... old guns are fun to use and mess with but many a day out has been sabotaged by old equipment failing in some strange way.

[wunderbarsafari]

I don’t think it’s entirely fair to compare value between a new production marker and a 20 year old one on the used market.

A standard mag with no barrel or ASA 20 years ago cost about $260 USD new. Adjusted for inflation of ~35%, that’s $351 in today’s dollars. Who’d buy that now? An almost usable gun?

Yeah it sucks that the emek price went up. But even at $270, it’s the equivalent of $200 back then, which would have bought you... a Spyder SE?

So yeah, there’s absolutely cheaper options. But considering that even if you buy a pops, adjustable trigger, nicer barrel, you’re just starting to reach the relative minimum of what you’d spend to get a mag or cocker up and running back in their heyday.

[Tinybear]

My first Automag that I still use today I purchased new in the late 90s for $410cdn. It came with the standard chrome tipped Automag barrel and a bottom line ASA. There was no foregrip on it.

Yeah with inflation that’s more than an Emek. But it’s also made from high grade stainless steel and machined to exacting tolerances. The emek may be a great shooter but it’s materials alone mean it’s a marker that’s cheaper and much easier to produce. Thus the extra $$ they charging is pure profit for them at our expense. Good for them but not something I willing to pay for. GOGs eNMEy is a far better value for the dollar and from all accounts performance wise is not far off. Even the eNMEy pro is $50 less than a Emek and has a freak barrel and on/off Asa.

[wunderbarsafari]

Profit doesn’t bug me if a product works well. I just like to put things into fiscal perspective for my own sanity.

For example, I bought an M170r. It’s expensive at $660. It does exactly what an Emek does. But it’s my one, nice grownup treat, daily driver. Adjusted back 20 years that’s $488 which would have bought me decent mag or cocker setup. I think those are apt equivalents for their respective time. That seems incredibly reasonable for me and my purposes. But I wouldn’t pay that for a 2nd or 3rd or 25th paintgun.

[gabe]

On the money side, you also have to realize that AGD went out of business and PE is still in buisness. Maybe not because of prices but being a profitable company that is making guns with good profit margins doesn't hurt. In addition, we need companies like PE in the sport and the only way they will stay is if they can make money doing this. They also roll that money into improving on designs and moving the whole industry forward.

From a macro perspective though you see this "cheapening" of materials happening everywhere. It's not that it's a lower quality, it's just that the fiber reinforced nylon they're using is lighter and more robust while also being cheaper. It's a win for everyone except retrogrouches who want metal everything (and hence why an automag weighs as much as 2x Emeks). You also have to look at the quality of design of the new guns as a win too with being far less complex and easier to manufacture while doing literally everything better than older guns like an automag. Tom Kaye designed a gun that was the pinnacle of engineering in the 90's but that had lots of little seals and moving parts that had to be made to exacting tolerances. With today's better engineering there are fewer seals to go bad and tolerances can be looser while still maintaining a much higher level of reliability than mags as well as better air usage, paint handling, weight...the whole package.

For your $300 or whatever they're going for now you're getting a LOT more than the automag back in the 90's. These PE guns come with all the tools, a great barrel, great user manual, a ton of spare o-rings, grease, and a really nice case. Back in the day you paid that for an automag and maybe got a gun in a cardboard box and an awful angled asa if you were lucky. Crown point or bull barrels were inevitably a throwaway item which is how the aftermarket got so large. Times change, guns turn to plastic, consumers profit.

[Jordan]

The emek may be a great shooter but it’s materials alone mean it’s a marker that’s cheaper and much easier to produce. Thus the extra $$ they charging is pure profit for them at our expense.

That is how a business is intended to be run, after all.

[Tinybear]

I’d argue the greater reliability. Only on the fact that the emeks not been out long enuff to truly judge that. I have shot the same Automag now for over 20 years only changing a few bolt foamies and detents.

Not even so much as a oring has failed in 20+ years. A lvl 7 classic valve is inherently a simple very robust design that still functions today just fine.

Also AGD Is technically still in business. In fact I recently ordered a ULE body and a rt/off from them my current mag build.

I would love to have a Emek but not at that cost for what you get. If a mag has a throw away barrel and Asa the same could be Said for the emek’s Asa and barrel.
Further more company’s like GOG offers direct competition at literally HALF the cost. Or fully loaded for still less.

Don’t take this wrong way. I really want an Emek I think they look to be a great setup. I like GRN when done right (after all it worked for AGD way back in the day still love my GRN single trigger AGD frames). I prefer single tube markers and I like the simplicity. I like single triggers and I like modifying things. But $400 is too much for this in my opinion.

[Spider!]

Unlike the enmy, there's nothing in the Emek that is not rebuild-able. I think there are four screws, counting the frame screws and the ASA (but not the core). They are made to be maintained, like an automag. The Emek weighs almost nothing and shoots like a single trigger pneumag. It handles small paint easily. Comes with a vert feed and lever feed neck. It is soft on paint, almost like a level 10 bolt. It is efficient enough to down size your HPA tank while carrying the same load of paint you carry with an automag.

My decision for an Emek was whether or not I was ever going to buy any other marker. If so, the Emek might as well be one of them.

I did buy both sizes of PALS hoppers, but I decided I would rather have a nice inception body and self agitated loader in the end

[sniper97]

The Gama core, takes a little bit to machine, that is what you are paying for. Composite body is the same material used in Glocks. Incredible reliability system, Gama core had been tested by PE for 1 million cycles, no issues. Lubed with peanut butter, no issues. Frozen, no issues. With an upgraded trigger and hair45 valve, you can take on electros. Really brings rec players extremely close to players with high end markers. On my want list. Gently on brittle paint. I would replace the barrel.

[RuleOfSines]

I just got one today out of total impulse, I absolutely love it. If I actually ever played, this is what I would bring .

[JonM]

If we’re going to compare the Emek to the Automag, I’d say it’s fair to do so without taking history or nostalgia into account. They both exist right now and they both serve the same purpose. Hands down, nearly everything that the Automag does, the Emek can do better. It’s lighter, smoother, more efficient, can handle more fragile paint, and has a lighter trigger pull right out of the box. I also see the GRN body as a plus. If you scratch it, oh well. The scratch will still blend in since there is no base material beneath it. If the Emek were released in the’90s, it would absolutely dominate the scene and many of the die hard Mag fans of today would probably be PE fans instead. Nostalgia and loyalty aside, it’s arguably the superior performer.