USPS denied claim

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  • rawbutter
    trophy husband
    • Jul 2020
    • 562
    • Fredericksburg, VA

    #1

    USPS denied claim

    This has me shaken.

    Recently I sold an old Synergy for parts to someone here. He sent me $20 through PayPal, and I mailed him the marker in a medium flat rate box through USPS. Shortly after, the package was lost somewhere in California, and I went through the process of filling out forms, first for a missing mail request and a few weeks later for a lost item claim. The item was found a month later and delivered to the recipient (yay), but then I got a letter from the post office saying that my claim was denied.

    They said my claim was denied there was "insufficient evidence of value" and because the item was delivered. I get the part about the item being delivered, obviously, but why also include this part about insufficient evidence?

    > Insufficient Evidence of Value. Reference Domestic Mail Manual section 609.3.2

    For Internet transactions conducted through a Web-based payment network that offers payment services through a stored value account, provide a computer printout of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed. The printout must clearly identify the Web-based payment network provider through which the Internet transaction was conducted.​
    Now, I DID provide proof of purchase during the claim process. I uploaded my PayPal receipt, which includes all the stuff they asked for. The receipt includes the buyer's name, the price paid, the date of the transaction, and a description of the item purchased. (The buyer only said "synergy" for that last part, but it should be enough to correlate with everything else.) The last thing post office asked for was "assurance that the transaction status is completed," but I don't know what they mean by that. (The receipt did say "Money Received," but isn't the receipt itself proof that the transaction was completed?

    Anyway, thankfully the item was delivered, and thankfully it was only worth $20, but now I'm sitting here wondering what to do the next time I sell something. I'm getting ready to sell some bigger ticket items in the $300-$500 range. If something gets lost, apparently a PayPal receipt isn't good enough proof to get an insurance claim approved? So, what is the safest way to sell stuff? Do I need to ask the buyers to include more details for their bylines on the PayPal statement? Do I only sell through eBay? Do I use UPS or FedEx instead?

    Has anyone else dealt with this? How do you respond when the post office says that a PayPal receipt isn't enough proof of value for an item you've sold?


    View my feedback or read about my Virginia woodsball club.

    Let me make you something. I build pneumags, auto-response frames, and wooden pill cases.
  • flyweightnate
    MCB Member
    • Jul 2020
    • 1903
    • Dallas, TX

    #2
    I got the same thing. They misdelivered a package - wrong state, somehow - and first told me it was delivered correctly, then said the invoice was insufficient evidence of value.

    Oddly, they then managed to get the package to the correct address, two weeks after I sent a replacement part. So some guy has two rails for his Sterling now and I gave up on the whole thing.

    There's an appeal process but i get the feeling they'll decline automatically until the third appeal.
    Feedback
    www.PhrameworkDesigns.com < Nelspot, Sterling, and Phantom parts, plus the occasional big project.

    Comment

    • Super Nova
      Old School
      • Jul 2020
      • 1865
      • Oregon

      #3
      I bought a marker off eBay and it got lost in the mail. The seller filed a missing package and nothing happened for over a week. Had to file a claim and got my money back but I feel bad cause the seller was out the gun and cash. They were super understanding and very communicative.
      Feedback: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...ova-s-feedback
      WTB: ICD stuff, single trigger electro frames, Gloss lime and purple parts, smoke hoppers

      Comment

      • Riot
        Malört Acquired
        • Jul 2020
        • 2483

        #4
        It’s a scam. I went through this on eBay as a seller.
        Unless you can prove the value w/ receipts, USPS basically tells you to kick rocks. Since most items are old and used, there’s no real way to show value.
        I literally provided the sale and shipping costs. I fought it twice and each time, they told me insufficient evidence.

        Luckily, it was only $35, but fuck USPS just the same.

        Comment

        • Painthappy
          Administrator
          • Jul 2020
          • 2634
          • New Boston, NH

          #5
          Really? The website: https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm#ep1098416

          Makes it seem like you just need proof of value (credit card statement, selling invoice, etc) - So something from ebay or paypal should do the trick it would seem.

          Sucks they make it harder than it should be especially if their system shows it was lost.
          I am the admin...

          Comment

          • KMDPB
            Poo Master
            • Sep 2020
            • 551
            • Tappahannock VA

            #6
            Had the same thing happen to me with a marker. I appealed twice with all appropriate documents and evidence. It was denied every time. $400 gone...
            Gas, Grass or Brass, no one rides for free...

            Comment

            • Siress
              S⌀.650" x 3.5g; F1979-17
              • Jul 2020
              • 1321
              • Central MA

              #7
              They have sovereign immunity in small claims court, so you'd have to take them to federal court where the filing fee alone is over $400. Late stage capitalism strikes again it seems.
              MCB Feedback - B/S/T Listings: WTB Various Phantom parts and accessories​

              Paintball Selection and Storage - How to make your niche paintball part idea.

              Comment

              • RPP
                You even shooty ball Bro?
                • Dec 2023
                • 495

                #8
                Its a fear of mine... Has not happened to me. *knock knock*

                Comment

                • $L!mBo
                  in the paint
                  • Oct 2020
                  • 1371
                  • Taylorsville, MD

                  #9
                  i think this varies location to location.
                  ive had some post offices take 2 extra days to go from "label created" to actually moving.
                  the branch i mostly use these days is a 40minute drive out of the way but theyve been consistently fast, reliable and easy to deal with.
                  sucks to hear about lost packages and $$$, and im dreading the day the lady im used to retires or gets assigned to a different office
                  WELTHOUSE x Timberghosts

                  my feedback
                  https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...l-mbo-feedback

                  Comment

                  • chplnstone
                    anachronistic fabrication
                    • Jul 2020
                    • 307

                    #10
                    I had one of my early lever rifles snapped in half (right at the grip). likely someone stacked weight on the 3' long box & broke it, then my buyer had to take just the wood & the box to the post office as part of an insurance claim (only partial, it was insured for 900 and I was asking 350 to remake the stock). they said there was insufficient evidence of damage to the packaging and it was likely damaged before shipment, with the added bonus of not returning the damaged stock (iirc as it was considered firearms related). I appealed and was denied, ended up making a new stock for free. years later I brought it up to a neighbor who works for usps, he told me the third try may have gotten through. since then I reinforce my boxes with a wood frame and expect nothing from the insurance

                    Comment


                    • DocsMachine
                      DocsMachine commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I helped a guy who had that happen to a $25,000 German Drilling from around 1920. (Basically a 3-barreled side-by-side shotgun, with the third barrel being a rifle cartridge.) The shipper- UPS in this case- had managed to break the stock at the wrist. I was called in to get some high-resolution photos and email them to the seller, the shipper, the insurance company, etc. (The old-timer had neither digital camera nor a computer. Presumably no local kind or grandkids either. I was happy to help, as it was an absolutely stunning gun, other than the break. The kind of craftsmanship I can only dream of.)

                      Doc.
                  • mercpb
                    mercpb
                    • Oct 2021
                    • 974
                    • midwest

                    #11
                    Waiting on my $100 claim for a lost (going on 6 weeks) $350 marker as I type this :|

                    I mail a LOT of packages and my experience in the past handful of years has been...
                    • maybe ~0.25% lost/damage rate
                    • Lost claims under $100 have gotten through no problem (had 2)
                    • Damaged claims are a huge hassle / writeoff because the recipient is expected to present damaged item with packaging at post office

                    Am pondering switch to UPS for anything over a few hundred bucks value moving forward.

                    Comment


                    • Pumps4ever
                      Pumps4ever commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I love UPS...

                    • StaticShocked
                      StaticShocked commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I use UPS for anything personal over $100 value, usually on my nickel, if i am selling or if i have the option when buying. At my day job, I have less damaged packages and a greater delivery on-time success rate with UPS vs either USPS or FedEx (i know this is highly dependent on the local distribution hubs and i don't exactly ship a whole lot).
                  • rawbutter
                    trophy husband
                    • Jul 2020
                    • 562
                    • Fredericksburg, VA

                    #12
                    Thanks for all the responses. Sounds like maybe the 3rd appeal is the charm? Who knows. I probably won't fight it more this time around since it was only over $20, but at least that gives me hope.

                    USPS has been really good to me otherwise. I think they've only lost one other package that I mailed, and that was at least 10 years ago. But I might pop into the local UPS office and ask about their policies.
                    View my feedback or read about my Virginia woodsball club.

                    Let me make you something. I build pneumags, auto-response frames, and wooden pill cases.

                    Comment

                    • Hp_lovecraft
                      MCB Member
                      • Jul 2020
                      • 374

                      #13
                      USPS has been generally pretty good to me. 99.9% delivered for sure.

                      My main issue with the USPS is that because they are understaffed, we usually only get mail once a week in my neighborhood, and thats usually a massive mail drop.
                      So if a package has 2-day shipping, the tracking will say all sorts of ridiculous messages like "undeliverable", or "no access to location", or "business closed" or "driveway blocked", etc. When, the mailman simply did not do the route. Sometimes I really need that package on time, but at least with Amazon, but the USPS doesnt deliver on time, you can get a refund.

                      However, China Post? Never never never. Scammers have figured out how to fake china post tracking, so they string you along with fake tracking progress for a month, then claim its delivered, but wasnt, making it near impossible to fix the situation

                      Comment

                      • rawbutter
                        trophy husband
                        • Jul 2020
                        • 562
                        • Fredericksburg, VA

                        #14
                        Originally posted by Hp_lovecraft
                        China Post? Never never never. Scammers have figured out how to fake china post tracking, so they string you along with fake tracking progress for a month, then claim its delivered, but wasnt, making it near impossible to fix the situation
                        I used to buy various small tools from China all the time on eBay. The shipping was always super slow, and I was always worried it wouldn't arrive, so usually I only did it for small stuff that I didn't care much if it got lost or not, like a spare reamer. I'm not sure I'm willing to do that now with the new tariffs.
                        View my feedback or read about my Virginia woodsball club.

                        Let me make you something. I build pneumags, auto-response frames, and wooden pill cases.

                        Comment

                        • fierymartel
                          Certified Post Whore
                          • Jan 2021
                          • 549

                          #15
                          I've had 3 items they claimed to have delivered to my mailbox. I have the multi unit community mailbox with individual locked boxes for each address. Each time the tracking said delivered and no item found in my box. Each time, claim denied as the tracking showed "delivered ". Clearly they only insure the tracking status, not actual delivery. This has all happened since moving to a large suburb. The small town i lived in for years, I never had a problem. I try not to use USPS if I can help it.
                          Feedback:https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...tel-s-feedback

                          Comment


                          • Siress
                            Siress commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I had an issue like this many years ago. At first, mail was being put into the wrong slot because it was mis-named on the side that the mailman could see. Then, packages were being left in front of the locked box and immediately growing legs. I happened by while the mailman was there and figured all of this out. Maybe you can catch your postman in action and see if they're helpful at all. I think for packages I was told to have them held at the post office or there was something I could write on there that had them leave it with the front desk.
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