why clean minimalism is actually enshitification of society

[Tarsun2]

its not just Ferrari, its not just this car. This is just a prime example of what's going on that people can comprehend. Almost everyone owns, has owned, operates, has operated, or knows some one that has, or has operated a car. its something that almost everyone is familiar with in one way or another.
imagine trying to explain this ideology without something physical like a car that everyone is already familiar with.

[The Hobbit]

Super cars should be garish displays of performance with the speed and handling to go with them. A viper that is trying to kill me is more enticing then a c8 vette with a pile of drivers aids. They show also sure as not look like an economy hybrid vehicle either.

caveat I’ve driven neither as of now.

[GattoDiavolo]

I’m not sure I fully agree with everything stated in this video, but it certainly raises some interesting points. (I should probably re-watch it)

I approach this as an architect. I found the references to Adolf Loos and Le Corbusier to be interesting, but he missed something in his argument. Loos felt that craftsmen (a vernacular ideal) were tasked with creating art for others, but never what they want to make (a crime in his view). For this reason, advocated for less ornament because he felt the middle class (who hired the craftsmen and perpetuated this crime) didn’t deserve it, but he believed in the use of fine materials in its place. In contrast, Le Corbusier advocated form following function in the way that a machine is designed to do its job without embellishment. His interest lay in industrial (mass) production and is famous for calling the house a “machine to live in”, like a consumable product. So yes, both advocated for a stripped-down un-ornamented aesthetic, they did so for very different reasons.

He's correct that successful design gets copied, and copied again, until the original loses all meaning. That is one of the things both Loos and Corbusier were critiquing in their work. In architecture, that loss of meaning is what contributes to a lost sense of place because nothing is “anchoring” it socially, contextually, or in cultural memory. My fundamental problem with “form only following function” is that the end product is still missing something, (hint: it’s the art, and art is emotion) and I was happy to hear the narrator articulate that.

There are reasons why most new buildings don’t elicit an emotive response. Money. Most paying clientele want the form that meets the functional need for a little cost as possible. In other words, everyone else has to put up with the blanduer that benefits someone else.

(For the record, I loathe Ayn Rand and the generations of impossible assholes “The Fountainhead” inspired)

[Chuck E Ducky]

There is also a psychological component to today’s new building designs. Bland boring design create environments that foster the easily influenced.

[Fubarius]

The thing is, this new Ferrari isn't necessarily a bad design in itself . It's a bad design, for a Ferrari. If it was a $100k Lexus it would be an ok design. If it was a $50k Chevy it would be a good design. If it was a $25k Kia it would be a fantastic design.

One thing no one likes to talk about is that expensive brands, such as Ferrari, exist for one purpose. Not "the ultimate driving experience", not to "push the envelope in automotive technology", not even "to provide for the true connoisseur of luxury sports cars". The do NOT exist for any of those purposes. They exist so someone can drive around town and have other people see how rich they are. "Look at what I can afford. You should have sex with me". Fancy jewelry, expensive watches, expensive suits, Haute Couture dresses, and on and on. Stupidly expensive, very flashy, easy to notice. "Look at me! I'm better than you!"

Now an issue is that I suspect a lot more introverts have become stupidly rich. They don't want, well, EVERYBODY looking at them as they drive by. Just those "in the know" should see how stupidly rich they are. This pops up in fashion. Take the uniform of the last few generations, the simple T-shirt and Jeans. That describes the outfit worn by millions of people every day. Heck, that's 95% of my entire wardrobe. And if you spend $100 total on a single T-shirt and a pair of jeans most people would say you spent too much.

Unless you're stupidly rich.

https://www.prada.com/us/en/p/cotton...81_F0086_S_OOO
$1590 for a simple cotton t-shirt.

https://www.prada.com/us/en/p/light-...9U_F0008_S_OOO
$1650 for relaxed fit straight leg carpenter jeans.

Be simple and comfortable, and the Prada logo lets the barista at the local coffee shop that your clothes cost more than their used Nissan Rogue. So yes, clothes for pretentious pricks.

This new Ferrari is the $1590 T-shirt of the car world. So yes, also for pretentious pricks, just those who really want a Kia Soul (the practical $15 cotton T-shirt of the car world), but need people to know they can afford Ferrari prices.

[cockerpunk]

you probably should watch the whole video.

[GattoDiavolo]

The thing is, this new Ferrari isn't necessarily a bad design in itself . It's a bad design, for a Ferrari. If it was a $100k Lexus it would be an ok design. If it was a $50k Chevy it would be a good design. If it was a $25k Kia it would be a fantastic design.

This is a valid observation from the point of view that the Ferrari Luche design isn't doing "Ferrari" correctly. It does look like a really fancy Kia Soul...but that's kind of let down if you're looking for something iconically and unmistakably Ferrari

[Fubarius]

Exactly. There are a whole bunch of all electric and plug in hybrid super cars being developed by an assortment of companies, and most of them look more "Ferrari" than what Ferrari came up with.

Like 10 years ago Ferrari was a subsidiary of Fiat, and the Luche looks way more like a Fiat.

Of course the Fiat EV looks like it can fit INSIDE of a Kia Soul. There does to be a trend towards "weaker" appearing designs when a company goes to design a new EV.

[DocsMachine]

Interesting conversation, though I haven't bothered to watch the video.

Thing is, neither minimalism nor maximalism is better or worse than the other. It's 100% opinion, preference and emotion. One might work for you while the other might not.

I know people that have six or seven items of furniture if you count the TV, and less than half a dozen books, and are perfectly happy. They wouldn't even know what to do with more. Then I know guys- like me - that have eighteen pounds of crap in a five pound bag, and sometimes even that isn't enough stuff.

I know a guy that absolutely can't wait for true full-self-driving to get perfected. He has a 45 minute commute, and would love to just get in like a taxi, zone out on his phone for 45 minutes, and then arrive at work. And then there's me again, who's favorite car has zero electronics except a small module in the ignition (and even that's only half a step removed from vacuum tubes ) no antilock, no 5MPH bumpers, no power windows, etc. No traction control, an automatic I gotta shift at times, a clockwork speedo driven by a mechanical cable, and the whole car is loud and obnoxious. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Of course, I also have a modern SUV with AWD and traction control, when all I want to do is jog into town for a quick burger.

Some of us like the simplicity of a Model 98, some of us want a Reflex 'Cocker. Some are happy with an out-of-the-box Etha, and some aren't happy 'til they get that double-barreled Freak-bored all-brass stock-class monstrosity with Walz furniture and a guitar-strap sling signed by Jimi Hendrix.

That wide range of tastes, preferences and opinions is what makes the world go 'round.

Doc.

[cockerpunk]

you probably should watch the video.

[DocsMachine]

... Why?

Doc.

[martix_agent]

Interesting conversation, though I haven't bothered to watch the video.

Everything you just said after this is FAR more interesting than the video. I found it to be be quite pretentious, and I honestly quit watching after about 5 min. I cant' honestly tell you what it was trying to say.