Anyone wear Prison Blues?

[Jellyghost]

I heard someone talking about quality American made workwear. They mentioned Prison Blues. After looking them up, it appears they are made by prisoners! Does anyone have experience with this brand? Has anyone heard anything about how the prisoners feel about it?

http://www.prisonblues.net/products

[Axel]

No, mine were orange.

Wait what

[DavidBoren]

A bunch of my cold weather gear in the Army was made by the American Association of the Blind.

So apparently we enslave prisoners AND blind people.

Enslave might be a bit strong... exploit? Employ is far too kind of a term. Indentured servitude?

[Axel]

Yeah, so, serious answer, I more or less feel the same about it as DavidBoren. Prisoners get paid a few dimes an hour, maybe. I don't oppose that system for prison-related jobs in a state or Federal system, but I find it morally problematic to exploit that involuntary labor for a profit. Especially when you take a pair of pants you spent maybe a buck fifty in labor to produce and try to sell it for $48.

[Nish]

If you are interested in quality American made boots look no further.

https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/boots/

[Jellyghost]

I recently met a guy who was locked up in CA from about 17 yo to 23 yo. He is now playing NAIA football as a tightend. As a prisoner, he spent the summers with a chiansaw fighting wild fires. He loved it. He earned a few thousand dollars and got better food for the work. All logging involves mortal danger, so I bet it pays better than making jeans. Clearly, there is a HUGE moral hazard with prison labor, but I am not certain it's bad. I wonder how the prisoners particularly feel about this company.

[Rusty Brass]

I'm willing to bet that the American Association for the blind is actually doing, for want of a better term, God's work. The blind have a hell of a time finding jobs. That's gotta be a procurement program tied to the ADA that's helping people live their lives.
The prison thing though? Takes some twisted-ass sophistry to wiggle past the 13th amendment there.

Danner is another good 'Murican brand. Their factory store is a right down the road from my job. Supposedly they treat their employees really well too. No prison labor or anything. Best boots I've ever owned.

https://www.danner.com/

[coyote]

Read the "about us" portion of the sight.

Those who have reservations about the situation should read it. It seems like a respectable above board situation that inmates aspire to be a part of.

Now, I understand every business likes to present themselves as the next "Ben and Jerry's". Sweat shops do not not hang out a shingle that says " labor abuser".

I'm pretty sure most inmate advocates agree that work is a valuable tool that helps incarceration be more akin to rehabilitation, and less like perpetual punishment.

[Siress]

I have some coastal property in South Dakota to sell you.

[Nish]

Siress if you disagree say why and continue the discussion.
I'm as much a fan of comedy and smartassed comments as anybody but so far this hasn't devolved into Facebook style name calling and if it does it will end.

[Nish]

I think that this is a tricky situation for sure.
On one hand I think leaving prison with a new set of marketable skills is a great way to help people out of a really bad cycle.
On the other hand I understand that there is abuse of that system and corruption.
Buyers should absolutely do their homework first.

[Tarsun2]

At 1st i thought you were referring to the blue scrubs i wear at work... LoL

[Target]

Yeah, so, serious answer, I more or less feel the same about it as DavidBoren. Prisoners get paid a few dimes an hour, maybe. I don't oppose that system for prison-related jobs in a state or Federal system, but I find it morally problematic to exploit that involuntary labor for a profit. Especially when you take a pair of pants you spent maybe a buck fifty in labor to produce and try to sell it for $48.

Do you think that those making Nike, Levi, Under Armor, pretty much everything at Walmart, Iphones, TVs etc are treated/ paid any better?

[Axel]

Those companies may be doing good or bad things in foreign labor markets, but either way that issue has no bearing on the morality of domestic prison labor. Your argument amounts to "those guys over there are doing bad things, so it's okay for these guys over here to do bad things, too"

[Grendel]

This topic reminds me of a news report on a local TV broadcast when I lived in Charleston, SC. The news report was covering the unfairness of "Road Gangs" on the roads throughout South Carolina at the time. Typical hype attempt with a background into the history of incarceration and use of prison "Work/Road Gangs" as part of the jail/prison system. Next they talked with anti-"road gang" interviews and how it was tantamount to "forced labor/slave labor/indentured servitude...etc". This was all fine and good though felt a little hyperbolic while was watching. Then they went live to a reporter with a "Road Gang" actively working on I26 and the supervisor was allowing the reporter interview one of the "Road Gang" with a question that boiled down to does she support the effort to get rid of the road gangs. The female inmate basically responded with why don't these people mind their own business, she had to work to get on the road crew and looked forward to getting away from jail for a few hours outside...etc. and while she was still responding the screen went blank and back to the news room.

So that story being said, to those who have a problem with using inmates as laborers have they actually talked to and polled the inmates? A lot of these programs are not there to provide money for the inmates alone but also to provide useful skill training and a method of tension release. I am not saying there isn't abuse associated the privatization of our imprisonment systems I just think it has to be assessed without bias and that is about where I will leave it because I don't want to step over the political line in the discussion.

[Falcon16]

I have a fundamental moral issue with the 13th amendment in so much as it says ok slavery or indentured servitude is bad and illegal but wait if you committed a crime we can force you to work involuntarily. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with prisons or people doing their time. I have a problem with the prison making a profit off of what is essentially slave labour. For me this isn't about politics it's about the idea that to say on one hand an act is bad and reprehensible but if you do bad we're going to do the thing we made an amendment to try and stop.

Now that said I don't see an issue with prisons that are in some part self sustaining, for example I look at the prison farm at Angola in LA. I think that makes sense in that the prisoners need to be fed and their is land to grow food, I don't look at that as slavery though as the prisoners are eating the crops that are grown.

[Grendel]

I have a fundamental moral issue with the 13th amendment in so much as it says ok slavery or indentured servitude is bad and illegal but wait if you committed a crime we can force you to work involuntarily. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with prisons or people doing their time. I have a problem with the prison making a profit off of what is essentially slave labour. For me this isn't about politics it's about the idea that to say on one hand an act is bad and reprehensible but if you do bad we're going to do the thing we made an amendment to try and stop.

Now that said I don't see an issue with prisons that are in some part self sustaining, for example I look at the prison farm at Angola in LA. I think that makes sense in that the prisoners need to be fed and their is land to grow food, I don't look at that as slavery though as the prisoners are eating the crops that are grown.

I am not in disagreement with you on this. I have to work to maintain myself and my family so I feel the same about someone who has been incarcerated but like you I think it should be part of a plan to defer the costs associated with the incarceration and as a method of providing usable skills in an attempt to prevent recidivism. In addition keeping inmates busy, "The devil finds work for idle hands to do. Better to reign in the hell than serve in heaven. We are in bondage to the law in order that we may be free" - Marcus Cicero

In the case of "Road Gangs" part of the reasoning behind it is, the work needs to be done and we can either hire people for more money or use low risk inmates that are being kept with little or nothing to do that is productive". The state government is not making money off them but instead differing some cost of road maintenance to supplement the cost of providing for some of the inmates. Could this be abused sure and I expect at times it has especially in the harsher past in the eyes of our current culture. I actually like your reference of Angola farming and some of the other jails that provide a service and the fruits of that labor is put back into the jail or prison. What I do not like about some of the privatization of the prison systems is these private organizations being "for profit". Any profits from inmate labor that does not go back to the maintenance of the jail/prison and maintaining the well being of the inmates should be used for recidivism prevention programs and maybe programs to prevent criminal behavior in the first place.