Recommendations for ≤$25k commuter car with autopilot like features?

[Siress]

I'm considering adding a dedicated commuter car to my fleet. Using a stick shift in traffic is a slog, and depreciation/wear/tear on my WRX has been a drag. Used is fine here, though I do appreciate the warranty of a new vehicle. I think my commute will go by most any brand of car, so that isn't a deciding factor here.

Needs:

• Enclosed... no motorcycles or Ariel Atoms. Already have that option covered.
• ≤$25k. less = better.
• Automatic transmission. Only CVT I'd allow is a Subaru from 2018 or newer.
• driver assist features. more = better
• Proven reliability in northern climate
• passive keyless entry
• Not fully electric. Hybrid allowed.

Wants

• Fuel economy. (FWD expected, but not required.)
• Easy to work on. I typically do my own maintenance and most repairs. Being able to drain oil and replace filters with minimal fuss would be nice. I currently use a fumoto valve to make it just that much quicker; with externally removable magnet cluster to still catch magnetic particulate.
• A nice audio system, or capable of having one installed relatively easily.
• A quiet ride. The road noise and rattles in my WRX are pretty much at my tolerance level. I make up for it with an aggressive audio and exhaust system.
• LED lights err-where... no halogens; or easily converted.

[JonM]

A lot of newer vehicles these days have features like lane assist, smart cruise, and so on. Is that this kind of stuff you're looking for or are you looking for an actual autopilot system like in a Tesla?

[Tarsun2]

with that budget, and req's, you should have pick of the litter.
thats like almost everything out there.

civic
accord
sentra
altima
fiesta
focus
fusion
elantra
senata
corolla
camry
jetta
malibu
regal
soul

all can be had with less than (a lot less than) 13,000 miles.
for less than $22,000.
all of them are 4cyl and good, if not great on gas.
2018 and newer...

the "next model up" would be nicer, quitter, and have more stuff...
civic < accord
Fiesta < Focus
Sentra < altima
so on and so forth.

[Siress]

For me, the scale basically goes form my current situation (driving a MT, doing my own maintenance, etc) all the way to having a human driver/mechanic while I take a nap in the back of the RV (a man can dream). Last time I looked into Tesla "autopilot" they had all of these promotional materials showing it driving itself, but even after the $10k price tag you had to keep your hands on the wheel... and looking at their site just now I see "autosteer on city streets" as "coming soon". Their marketing video shows autosteer on city streets, so they're still not showing what you're buying in their own promotional materials. I really don't know where the various technologies stack up from a practical perspective.

edit: Just caught your post, Tarsun2 . Are they all roughly equivalent in terms of driver assist technology?

[Tarsun2]

driver assist seems like it will be the determining factor.
With the other criteria, that will cut the list by 2/3rds or more.
that will help narrow the list. lol

[JonM]

I can speak for the Altima since that's what I own. When cruise and lane assist are turned on, the car will maintain a designated distance from the car in front of you up to the speed limit you set. The car will also maintain it's lane automatically with subtle steering assists around gentle curves so long as you keep your hands on the wheel. It's not true autopilot though. The assists are just to help you stay centered in your lane on the highway. It's helpful if you start to drift, but that's about all.

[shadow191]

I think none of the driver assist/"self drive" tech is that advanced. Best of the bunch is supposed to be Cadillac with their supercruise but that uses a lot of roads/highways programmed in so not sure how it would handle newer roads not in memory. Supposedly Volvo is coming out with full self drive capabilities in 2022 as they bought a LIDAR maker.

I have a '17 Volvo XC90 with their Pilot Assist 2 system and it's just ok. It will drive itself with minimal input as long as you keep your hand on the wheel. If it senses no pressure for 14 seconds, it starts warning you. I've used it on long road trips and it's helpful. But if the lane markers are worn out, it doesn't work well and will shut down without warning as cameras can't find lanes. That's my biggest issue with it, it will just shut off without warning if it can't find lane which is probably worst time for it to shut off.

I thought it would be more useful than it is. Honestly, I think none of the tech is quite there yet and it's not a consideration in future car purchases until the tech gets more mature. I've driven other lane assist equipped cars and was unimpressed. Most of them just provide a small nudge back into lane and it doesn't do that much.

[JonM]

Honestly, even the most autonomous self driving vehicles aren't quite there yet. I'd much sooner have a driver assist package that provides only a subtle nudge than a system that makes the human driver more of a passenger. There are just too many nutjobs on the road for me to completely let my guard down and trust my safety to a computer.

[Flounder]

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/two-dead-tesla-crash-texas-that-was-believed-be-driverless-wsj-2021-04-18/

[Jonnydread]

I just went from a manual 2008 WRX to an automatic 2019 Camry and honestly I LOVE it. I spent around $20k and it has all the fancy features like lane assist and predictive cruise control, but with a non-hybrid engine I regularly get 42mpg and it's a super comfortable. I really enjoyed my WRX, but I don't regret the switch at all, I love my Camry.

[Bow]

A Tesla on Autopilot just crashed like yesterday because the dumb ass driver hopped into the backseat. Killed both the driver and the passenger when it went off the road and caught fire.

The flagship system isn't good enough to drive on an empty country road, none of the systems are that good. Theyre getting better, but they aren't there.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2021/apr/19/two-die-in-tesla-crash-no-one-in-drivers-seat-police

[Siress]

This is what I feared. It jives with a conversation I had at a wedding a couple of years ago. Guy I was talking to was(is) a phd researcher focused on neural networks and the ilk. He spent a few years working on automated driving systems and surmised that the fundamental computing technology needed doesn't exist yet and is not likely to exist for several decades if ever. All I want is for it to be reliable enough for me to take a nap while it handles the major highways, and smart enough to find secure parking when anything goes awry. Guess I'll keep cultivating child laborers.

[Tarsun2]

what was the car with "smart park"?

[Jonnydread]

what was the car with "smart park"?

I believe there's a few different models that offer that nowadays

[Sparky]

I'm a huge fan of Toyota Matrix... Yes they haven't been made in awhile but they just keep going and going without putting any money into it. Extremely easy car to fix, really good winter driver, cheap on fuel, fun to drive (MT) and cheap to buy. Negative? Underpowered (105 HP), bad sound system (mines an 05...) and the seats are not the best if your a bigger person.
Ok I mostly like that I only did $12 CAD last year in "repairs" to my car for 20000 km of driving....

[Siress]

Ok I mostly like that I only did $12 CAD last year in "repairs" to my car for 20000 km of driving....

ooooof. I spent more on repairs just this morning. My WRX has reached the age where I have to start battling rust in earnest - mostly on the hitch and winter wheels. The rock chips alone are going to set me back 1-2k since the windshield has to be removed (top lip of roof is in rough shape).

I just went from a manual 2008 WRX to an automatic 2019 Camry and honestly I LOVE it. I spent around $20k and it has all the fancy features like lane assist and predictive cruise control, but with a non-hybrid engine I regularly get 42mpg and it's a super comfortable. I really enjoyed my WRX, but I don't regret the switch at all, I love my Camry.

Tell no one, but I totally get it. I might just follow in your footsteps.

[Jonnydread]

Kamry krew!