Rap4 T68 - or just general magfed/fs questions?

[Headshotted]

Between potentially picking up a magfed here on the forums or what looks to be a well taken care of T68, I turn to you nerds for opinions. Everything I've read about the T68 says it's fairly fragile, maintenance intensive. What should I be looking into/for as far as magfed goes? Decent little scenario game was had this weekend and there was a lot of them out there and they look like fun.

[Trbo323]

I would avoid, not like I have the most extensive experience but my father in law owned one and I worked on it, never again. It's a stacked tube blowback, a spyder, with 100000 parts bolted onto it to give it that look. They are not the most reliable and also rap 4 has a terrible track record. My father in law when he got his in the mid 2000s, it would not shoot below 350fps. Turns out rap4 shipped it with a "police" spring in it that is much stiffer than the ones meant for paintball play.

We went to Oklahoma d day 2015, guy near put camp bought a t68 new at d day.... Same problem, would not Chrono under 350. So in 10ish years, rap 4 couldn't figure out a good way to put the correct springs in the markers.


As to what I do recommend, valken m17. It's pretty cool, typically around $350, it's a modified automag internally, I believe FS capable from the factory and even has mechanical full auto. Pretty trick little shorter. REALLY simple inside. I'm not a milsim or mag feed guy but I did some work on one for a friend and I have to say, I was impressed, especially at $350 new

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[Toestr]

I don't have any experience with the t68 but, I haven't heard good things. The mags are especially problematic, not sure if the updated mags help.

Assuming you're going the for real steel ergonomics aspect of magfed, I would probably go with an MCS conversion kit for a Tippmann/BT. Again I haven't actually used one, but it they're basically just replacing the body, and it can't see a making a cast body being that difficult to do well.

The most reliable mags seem to be the straight stack ones, not the curved channel ones. TiPX and Dye mags seem to be the cheapest/best performing mags out there, and there's both universal and specific mag adapters for each.

The M17 seems cool, but the build quality seems suspect. Also no anti chop option.

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[Trbo323]

The M17 seems cool, but the build quality seems suspect. Also no anti chop option.

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Why do you say it's suspect? The one I've dealt with was a milsig m17, valken bought milsig and kept producing the m17, so really it's not even designed by valken if the valken name is your problem. as best I can tell the only thing that has changed is the name on the side even valken started making it. There was actually a fair amount of steel in the thing.

Put it this way, stuff like the tippman tmc is also a automag copy internally, but tippmann does it waaaaaay worse. They added about 1000 parts that really don't need to be there. If anything milsig simplified the already fairly simply automag design down to it's bare necessities, made the bolt much heavier (which allows for full Auto) and then wrapped a milsim shell around it

And as for anti chop options, as far as I know, no mag feed marker has any, why bother? You have a direct feed spring loaded stack, it's about as fast as you can physically load something. Id be more concerned about crushing paint over chopping.

As far as I know, AGD has the only mechanical anti chop out there right now. I'll give smart parts/gog that was well but if you ask me, that one is more of a happy accident over design intentions.

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[Toestr]

Why do you say it's suspect? The one I've dealt with was a milsig m17, valken bought milsig and kept producing the m17, so really it's not even designed by valken if the valken name is your problem. as best I can tell the only thing that has changed is the name on the side even valken started making it. There was actually a fair amount of steel in the thing.

Put it this way, stuff like the tippman tmc is also a automag copy internally, but tippmann does it waaaaaay worse. They added about 1000 parts that really don't need to be there. If anything milsig simplified the already fairly simply automag design down to it's bare necessities, made the bolt much heavier (which allows for full Auto) and then wrapped a milsim shell around it

And as for anti chop options, as far as I know, no mag feed marker has any, why bother? You have a direct feed spring loaded stack, it's about as fast as you can physically load something. Id be more concerned about crushing paint over chopping.

As far as I know, AGD has the only mechanical anti chop out there right now. I'll give smart parts/gog that was well but if you ask me, that one is more of a happy accident over design intentions.

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I've heard from multiple people about bolt tips separating and general QC issues. Older models also apperently had magazine and plastic cracking issues. No issues with Valken myself, but there was speculation about customer service falling off when North American distribution changed from Widowmaker to Valken.

I assume you mean TCR/TiPX since the TMC is 98 based. Yes, they look pretty bad.

I've seen paint chop in many magfed guns and be a bigger pita to clean than normal. Also contaminates the magazine. There are Lok Bolts available for pretty much every mag fed gun other than a milsig. The MG100 also has a low force bolt.

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[pearcem]

I owned a pre-Valken M17. It was a good gun overall. A bit heavy and bulky, and a gas hog, but it shot well and never really let me down. I say never really, because the only time it was a pain was if you got a chop in the breach. Not a great field stripping gun, and it really needed to be broken down and cleaned to stop the runaway blending mess once it got started. Overall, I liked it and would recommend it, but it has some quirks.

My personal view is stay away from the Rap4 stuff. I have owned a couple of their guns, most notable was a 468 DMR. Absolute trash. Build quality was shockingly bad with regards to tolerances. To the point that I had to sand the receiver down to get the bolt handle to cycle without binding on the body. Velocity was problematic as mentioned. The mag solutions were terrible. I got a mix of different sizes and types of mags, some new and some used, and I swear not a single one of them reliably fed roundball or FSR. Like I couldn't get through a whole magazine without an issue. I switched to a scarab magwell and mags. Those mags did much better, but the actual opening to feed the rounds didn't line up correctly on the gun. It was several mm too far back. This was on a rap4 product, made fora rap4 marker, sold by rap4, and a service person from rap4 told me it would work before I ordered it. Total joke.

If you really want to try the playstyle, I would save the money to get an EMF100

[Brokeass_baller]

RAP4 is now MCS, and the T68 is now the 468. I've heard the T68 is garbage, but I haven't heard anything but great things about the 468. The 468 uses Helix and DMAGS. Both can feed round ball and FS, though a heavier spring is needed for FS.

I do not own a 468, but I do own a Vortex, which uses A5 guts and the same magazines. I use helix mags for round ball, and DMAGS for FS, and I haven't had any issues yet. With the Techt Zero Kick hammer and lok-bolt, it's a fantastic shooter. I would recommend MCS products. They really seem to have stepped up their game.

[djeclypse]

I had a T68. Finicky, leaky, temperamental, hard to tech. At the right price it's a good start and learning experience. I moved from there to a Tacamo Blizzard, basically a Tippmann 98C in a magfed skin, Not as "nice" looking as the T68 but bulletproof reliability. My biggest problem is the MCS/Tacamo mags. They seem fragile and don't always seat nicely. I moved from the Tacamo Blizzard to the Planet Eclipse MG100. Game Changer. Amazing magfed marker. Unbreakable Emek platform. Uses Dye DAM mags which are LIGHT YEARS better than the DMAG or Helix from MCS/RAP4/Tacamo. Easier to clean, maintain and service than ANY other magfed marker. To your original post, stay away from the RAP4 T68. If you want a budget magfed, get a Tacamo. Blizzard/Bolt are 98C based, Vortex is A5, Hurricane is X7. Typical Tippmann reliability and durability, typical Tippmann PITA full service/maintenance, but the one thing that lets them down are the MCS magazines. I have teammates with the M17 but they are backups to their MGs or SARs. Dye DAM is capable but requires batteries and I have definitely seen more problems with it than the MG.

[P.I.C.T. Tactical]

Actually the t68 and 468 are separate guns the way they are built. Listen, the T68 is a cheap spyder clone with horrible mags that will serve to do nothing but turn you off of mag fed. The 468 is better, but not worth the money. Honestly anything by Scarab arms is good for a Mag Fed spyder clone with good mags.
I own 2 loaded emf 100s, a Dye dam, a TCR and 4 FSR rifles and have owned pretty much everything. Know what I can’t stop using? That always works with great mags and tons of accessories?

My TMCs. Great mags, user friendly and tough as nails. Best paintball guns I ever bought.
If you want to run FSR get an EMF100.

[Headshotted]

I kinda wanna try the whole "paintball sniper" thing, as one of my local fields is a 5 acre scenario field. This is all pretty hypothetical until tax season is over, but I do really appreciate the input from everyone. Regardless of which route I go, I really do enjoy reading and getting perspectives.

[Jonnydread]

If you don't care about FSR the Tippmann Stormer or TMC is a super reliable and inexpensive way to get into magfed.

I have a MCS Bolt pump. I like it and it shoots FSR great, but the quality is not the best I've seen.

[Brokeass_baller]

TMC sand Stormer can be modified for T15 mags, if you're handy, and thus First Strikes.

[Headshotted]

I think I've found a like new M17, but now I have questions about pouches. I can find plate carriers easily, but what kind of holders do I need for the mags?

[Toestr]

AR/AK mag pouches work. 100rd horizontal pod packs also work.

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[Seajay]

Honestly if you want to shoot FSR as a first timer into magfed, save your coin and get an MG/EMF100. It's as buy-n-play as you can get, and has the least issues. It's a fantastic shooter.

Everything else requires some level of technical understanding, as things do and will go wrong. If you want to dive into that level of things go wrong and here is how to deal with it, then pick whatever you'd like to shoot (except the T68 as that wasn't designed to shoot FSR).

Otherwise just for playing magfed the TMC is really good with roundball.

Magfed is expensive because it can have a lot of accessory setup, such as pouches, and the cost of FSR is high. You can make the setup affordable, but there is a lot of preference here. Gear is easy to just spend a lot of money on. Simplicity is key though, and setup for the field and game you are playing. You don't need to carry 14 magazines if you are playing normal field 10 minute games, for example.

I'd plan around 3 or 4 magazines, a way to carry them, and then just go play. It is a different way of playing and so you will need to figure that part out. Don't encumber yourself before you decide if you like or don't like the playstyle. You are still playing paintball, and speed and positioning are deciding factors on how effective you are on the field.

[Headshotted]

The setup I am looking at comes with 5 mags, so there's that. I don't want to shoot dedicated fsr but the ability to do so when needed would be nice. I don't mind learning, teching, and modifying as needed. While tools are limited, I have the best resources through you guys as far as information and troubleshooting goes. I do like to tinker, and I can find a pouch or pouches like that pretty easily as military surplus stores are abound here. An MG is on the list, but I also like having loaner gear available. If the m17 will do the job and get the occasional fsr down wind, then I feel like for what the guy is asking it's pretty solid, and the setup is like new.

[Headshotted]

Is there any reason not to purchase any of the FSC markers? Genuinely curious.