Double Finger Trigger History

[uv_halo]

For a very long time, my perception has been that the double finger triggers arrived on the scene with the first electros and, then in reaction, a lot of the mechanical gun manufacturers started to include them to make them look more desirable (implying more powerful, etc?) to buyers but, often not even making any real sense.

I recently looked into it and, the very first Electro, the PVI Shocker appears to have come with either a single finger or a double finger trigger (a big ugly thing by today's standards). All of the early (and first ads) for it that I've seen show the double finger version so, it's possible that the single trigger was an aftermarket mod. That being said, have any of you seen a specific model of mechanical paintball gun that may have been the first with a double finger trigger?

I've looked at an April 1995 Paintball Sports International, an April 1994 APG, and a 1992 Paintball Magazine, and could see no such thing. The easiest gun of the time to make a double finger trigger would be the VM-68 as it didn't have a guard only for the trigger but rather, the whole grip.

In an Aug 96 issue of APG, I did find a Pro-Team Products ad that included a drawing of "68 MICROMAG - Tournament Deluxe" with an "optional double trigger .45 grip frame", in the green/black 'tigerstripe' pattern.

Funny enough, I found a post on PB Nation by Fubarius that says that they existed way before Electros but, shows an example of a Spyder released well after 1995. In 1996, Kingman was only selling two versions of the Hammer, the Spyder (later referred to as the classic), and the Spyder Compact.

[Ecapnation]

Double triggers existed before electric guns for sure....

Production wise the PVI shocker was the first eletric gun to have them. But mags, cockers, Spyders and tippmanns had bolt on options way before it's release.

I think the first production gun to have one would be either the Spyder SE or one of the scorpions

[MrBarraclough]

JonM I remember it the other way around. I think it was Spyder, Spyder Compact, then Spyder SE in those early years.

[JonM]

I tried referencing the wayback machine, but they go only as far back as 1/25/1999. At this time, all of these models were still on the market. So it would definitely be before then. after more than 25 years, my memory is a bit foggy. Still, I at least remember my first marker being the TL+ and seeing ads in APG for the SE somewhere around the same time, give or take. In any case, it's very close.

[The Inflicted]

The Speedmaster/Spyder SE preceded the Spyder TL by at least a year, and the TL+ by even longer. I don't know if it qualifies as a "production" gun but the Micromag Tournament Deluxe would have been older than any of these.

[Fubarius]

I'll have to check my records once I get home, but when I first started playing in 97? electros were pretty much irrelevant even if the PVI Shocker was around. One gun does not make a standard. Also the only readily available motorized hoppers were Revolutions.

I installed my first double trigger, on my fully modded Stingray II, in 98 at the latest, possibly late 97. It was a small piece from an old chunk of PVC, two narrow strips of brass, and tight wrap of electrical tape. Really. Used that puppy for years. I didn't invent it, I obviously saw the concept of a double trigger somewhere before hand. At the time it was most certainly NOT a factory option anywhere. EVERY double trigger install required cutting off the trigger guard if one was present (VM's being the exception, but they were falling out of favor anyways). And every hacked off trigger guard was on a mechanical.

Why did we do this? NOT TO WALK THE TRIGGER. That wasn't a thing. At all. Nobody did it. Most had too long a pull to do that anyways. But we fanned the triggers. A lot.

Mechs, especially cheap ones, can have heavy triggers. You can tweak and trim and polish for days but that only takes you so far. But a longer lever to pull, and room for two fingers pulling together instead of one, can improve things significantly. A bit higher rate of fire, and probably more importantly less fatigue so you could maintain that bit higher rate of fire longer.

In my collection is an Angle LED. 98 vintage I believe, maybe the year after. It was a single trigger, but someone cut off the trigger guard. It came to me with a Ring trigger. Imagine a double trigger but the bottom curve is a ring, a full circle. You can not walk a ring trigger. The idea was that if you had too light of trigger return spring, and you start fanning the trigger hard, the trigger may not reset fast enough. So the ring let you PUSH the trigger into reset faster.

Around this time, late 98-99'ish I started to see electros a bit more often. A few Angels at the local field. Most single, one had a double trigger. He'd show off between games walking the trigger, but the few times he tried it in game he just chopped. We were only using Revolutions at the time still. We're still fanning triggers of the break here.

A few guns, early spyder SE's, a few ICD Thundercat variants, and some other random stuff was available with a factory double trigger, but with out the trigger guards. High end stuff had cut guards, so the low end "upgraded" versions matched.

In 2000? or so, could be off a bit, tournaments started requiring trigger guards, and some fields started copying the requirement. Some even went so far as to require "factory" trigger guards, but I don't think anyone was that picky. My stingray had a full hand trigger guard like a VM at this time. I'll have to go through some old photos to remember if a converted it to a proper two finger guard, but the next 2 stingrays I built had proper two finger guards.

Walking the trigger as a legit game technique was still a few years off. Not until we got good forcefeed hoppers, and more importantly, eyes on the guns. Before that, fanning was the style. After, walking became the style.

[uv_halo]

That totally makes sense for fanning the trigger. The Intent is the same- increase the rate of fire. It'd have to be a really bad trigger to warrant putting a longer lever arm on it. My Tippmann 98, my Spyder, all were fine with no more than a polishing. Given what you said about fanning the trigger, I totally believe that would be a sought after thing that the tournament scene was good with until the risk of unguarded triggers got to be too much.

I think a lot of the guns you're thinking of (Spyder SEs, etc), came after 95. The biggest candidate I've seen so far is the private label automags (planet eclipse) but, I need to see when those released.

[uv_halo]

Double triggers existed before electric guns for sure....

Production wise the PVI shocker was the first eletric gun to have them. But mags, cockers, Spyders and tippmanns had bolt on options way before it's release.

I think the first production gun to have one would be either the Spyder SE or one of the scorpions

I can myself speak directly to the Spyder. I bought the first model Spyder in 1995 (at Skirmish the store) in black. In 1996, the Spyder compact. Neither of those came in double finger trigger variants at the time. (I researched both of these guns before buying).

I'd be really surprised to find a pre-95 Tippmann with a double finger. Correct me if I'm wrong but, the only Tippmann guns out in 1995 were:

• SMG series: Possible if cutting the guard but, why?
• 68 Special (using the SMG series 'lowers): Possible if cutting the guard, I've never seen on modded this way.
• Factory F/A: Serious Grip work, given the trigger guard is the air line
• Pro Lite: Serious Grip work, given the trigger guard is the air line

I'm going to go over to the AGD forums to ask about pre-95 double finger triggers. There are lots of examples of guns with Benchmark double finger grips and triggers, so it's worth trying to figure out when those were released. There's also the hyperframe which came in a double finger version. I'd consider that an electro since you're actuating an electronics switch which then cycles a solenoid sear tripper.

One thing that may cause some confusion is that there doesn't seem to be a sudden transition given how the early electros were very expensive, and sold in limited numbers. So, it's very possible that someone saw a double finger mechanical before they saw an electro with a double finger trigger, even if the mechanical was released later. Further compounding this is a lot of very early electros didn't include a double finger trigger.

[The Inflicted]

[uv_halo]

PERFECT FIND!! So, we're down to the same year. 1995.

Bonus points for the "high tech paintgun" caption on a Magic Box Automag :P

[Painthappy]

I just came here to mention something like the post above... The double triggers came before there were double triggers and hence why so many trigger guards were cut in the 90's.

[Fubarius]

What's with the obsession with 95? What milestone supposedly happened that year that's it's important or not that double triggers existed then?

The factory guns with doubles came after 98, given fact. But they were copying existing modified guns. That's whole era of a few years was pretty much about companies starting to release factory pre-customized guns, copying whatever mod was in style that year. Custom home brew and aftermarket mods ALWAYS come BEFORE factory options.

Ignore factory options, if you want the first, find the first guy who made one at home.

[uv_halo]

Well, my original understanding was that electros introduced double finger triggers, and popularized them. I've seen other people say that double finger triggers were out for years before Electros. Your conversation about the mod scene have illuciated me to understand that like many things, it's nuanced.

The hardest part about finding mods, especially homebrewed, there is likely to be very little evidence discoverable on the internet, and memories are malleable.

[Fubarius]

Right, that original understanding is wrong (hey, happens to all of us), double triggers came first, as home brew and aftermarket accessories, then electros showed up but not common, about same time a few factory doubles show up, first on cheap mechs copying the mod scene, then tournaments started requiring guards, so electros and mechs started being made with double guards, some optional, some standard, then finally hopper tech allowed walking.

Don't bother too much with the private label ads, looks at the Aftermarket Accessory Ads. Bench mark, Eclipse (that Eclipse mag up there? Nearly all were made by the user, buying matching aftermarket accessories and installing them on their own gun), I&I, really any of the early aftermarket guys may have a Double Trigger Shoe listed somewhere.

[Painthappy]

What's with the obsession with 95? What milestone supposedly happened that year that's it's important or not that double triggers existed then?

The factory guns with doubles came after 98, given fact. But they were copying existing modified guns. That's whole era of a few years was pretty much about companies starting to release factory pre-customized guns, copying whatever mod was in style that year. Custom home brew and aftermarket mods ALWAYS come BEFORE factory options.

You're not wrong.... The factory doubles came much much later. Look no further than the Angel paintball gun. Even the LCD's even started as a single trigger and you can find them in the 2000/2001 era still having single triggers on them. There was a big battle on single vs double trigger and I was in the single trigger camp and I still really am. I just click one at a time and it shoots fast enough for me.

[Fubarius]

I've been a fan of doubles for years, especially on my mechs. I also click one at a time, I jus use two finger to do it.

[The Inflicted]

Low chances of one popping up in a magazine, but I wonder if the trigger pulls on something like a Brass Eagle Poison or Jaguar would have been enough to inspire double finger triggers much earlier.

Good place to prowl around: https://www.facebook.com/oldpaintbal.../photos_albums

[uv_halo]

I'm guessing that the early private labels will be the most likely ones to run ads. I don't have a big enough collection of mags to quickly peruse them.

[uv_halo]

Oh, and thanks for the link!! I will check that out later!!

[uv_halo]

I've always been pro single finger but first and primarily for comfort. So, what's my beef with double finger (walking or fanning)? It's a way to increase the rate of fire while still claiming to be 'semi-auto', and the way the industry turned a blind eye to that fact while supplying the rental side of the industry with single finger triggers.

Just to further clarify- I'm fine with semi-auto, response, 3-round burst, full auto, etc. Just make sure it's a level playing field for the rentals.

[DocsMachine]

Interesting question. I can't recall when, exactly, I saw my first double trigger. I know I bought a Mega-Z in either late '96 or early '97, that the previous owner had converted to a double (sawed the guard off and attached a 2-finger shoe.) I also know that when I started this biz full time in '98, doing 2-finger conversions was common enough that making replacement 2-finger guards was one of my first moneymakers.

Hell, I used to have a small jar full of all the trigger guards I sawed off.

First use? First factory? Good questions... That was one of those things that 'just kind of happened', and those of us that weren't playing in tournaments didn't pay much attention to.

Doc.

[DocsMachine]

Possible update: I think I recall, but have no photographic proof, of playing with a group of guys (local game, but the guys were down from Anchorage) one of whom had a Stroker. Used a 300-round 'Dominator' loader and a vertical 24-oz tank.

I seem to recall that gun also had a nickeled 2-finger trigger, which none of us had seen before.

If my memory isn't failing me, that would have been 1992.

Doc.

[uv_halo]

You talking about the APP hopper or, something else? When I first read this, my mind went to that giant loader that looked like a bent PVC or ABS pipe. That was out briefly in that time before the Viewloader took over.

[DocsMachine]

Yep, the "Dominator Commander", the only 300-round loader I'm aware of. (Apart from anything homemeade, etc.)

I've got one around here somewhere.

Doc.

[ATBen]

The first double triggers I saw were when the Spyder compact and TL type guns ruled the day alongside 98s and stingray field rentals. Then I remember seeing the automag and 98 double triggers. Cocker double triggers I can't say? I want to say they were pretty much standard at our local field by the time the pro stock had came out.

[uv_halo]

The original Spyder Compact came only in a Single Trigger finger variety. That being said, if you saw them along 98s, that would be no earlier than 1998.

[ATBen]

Since my first birthday rental party was in 98, that makes sense. I started really playing around 2001 once I had my first job in highschool, and everyone seemed to have either a Spyder/Spyder clone or 98c as their first gun.

[Fubarius]

While not conclusive yet, so far the earliest aftermarket frame with a full double trigger guard was in July 96, PGI

https://www.generalpaintball.com/paintball-magazines
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A8z...ew?usp=sharing



And in the same issue...





So at this point double triggers existed, were known about, and popular enough to support an aftermarket frame for it and even show up on some lets say boutique guns.

Notice the cut guard on the Eclipse.

While perusing old magazine scans there was a pretty big shift from early 95 to mid 96. Not a mention of them in early 95, to plenty in 96.

[uv_halo]

I'm thinking that 1995 might be the first year. I've looked through all of the 1994 paintball literature (mags, catalogs, newsletters) in the Old Paintball Magazines Facebook Group and, none showed up in ad photos, game (mostly tournament) photos, or shop ads. The closest I saw were trigger jobs for $45, and Auto Response triggers for mags. I would expect to see them first in tourney photos. Now, I couldn't tell what kind of triggers were in all the photos for 1994 mags and catalogs but, for those where I could see the trigger (and trigger finger), I was able to clearly make it out the single guards.

The Earliest I can find, is the April 1995 PGI where Planet Paintball (I went there a couple years later) is advertising Planet Eclipse versions of the Mini Cocker and, Automag:



Notice how they refer to the Minicocker having a "Planet Trigger" while the Automag is referred to as a Double Trigger Shoe. Maybe a collaboration between the store and Planet Eclipse?