FASOR Mechs?

[Jordan]

Really anything that has a 3 way, rather than a 5 way noid (if electro) and uses a spring to reset the marker can fall under that description.

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Sounds a bit like the rationale Smart Parts used when they rewrote their patent in the mid 2000's. 🤔

I'll continue to agree to disagree, then, when it comes to FASOR definition.

[Jordan]

While Ive never owned a BKO I believe they are not spring return. The B2K and Promaster are not spring return. In favt the Promaster is sprung forwards as they had bolt stick issues in prototyping.

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BKOs are 100% spring return. They even use a 3way noid vs. the 4/5way the Bushmasters and Promasters use.

[the_hyren]

Vanguard creed is full ep poppet

Huh. Makes sense, they are quite sought after.

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[Trbo323]

Huh. Makes sense, they are quite sought after.

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Really? For what they are you can pick them up for dirt cheap. I got mine which is a splash Anno for $200, my brother in law got a creed and demon together for $350 (solid colors) and mlzplayer on here just got his a week ago at $300 through eBay (splash Anno)

They are though a fantastic platform that I think was well ahead of it's time, you can still get a good chunk of the hard parts for them, stuff like the poppet face is a o ring so you never have to worry about that. LPR uses a schrader valve from a bike tire. The board, is OMG good and very user friendly.

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[the_hyren]

Really? For what they are you can pick them up for dirt cheap. I got mine which is a splash Anno for $200, my brother in law got a creed and demon together for $350 (solid colors) and mlzplayer on here just got his a week ago at $300 through eBay (splash Anno)

They are though a fantastic platform that I think was well ahead of it's time, you can still get a good chunk of the hard parts for them, stuff like the poppet face is a o ring so you never have to worry about that. LPR uses a schrader valve from a bike tire. The board, is OMG good and very user friendly.

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I have 3 demons but I haven't seen a creed for sale under $400 on here

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[Trbo323]

I have 3 demons but I haven't seen a creed for sale under $400 on here

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O here? No, MCB values quality too much. The rest of the paintball community sees a marker that's a forgotten and out of business european brand and automatically assumes it's either crap or you can't get parts for it.

Now the demon on the other hand, that's a different story. I would not recommend one of those

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[the_hyren]

Now the demon on the other hand, that's a different story. I would not recommend one of those

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Funny. I have 3 of the older model. All used that I picked up from here at $200 to $250. They are actually really good imo except for the stock grips which are all separated

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[Trbo323]

Funny. I have 3 of the older model. All used that I picked up from here at $200 to $250. They are actually really good imo except for the stock grips which are all separated

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O yeah don't get me wrong they CAN be good. But vanguard used 3 different styles of o rings in the design.

Astm
Metric
And some weird euro size I had the worst time tracking down.

And yes the grips, they are the same grips on the creed. (Tip, some angel grips will fit and if you can get them in clear you can still see the screen)

Vanguard did a lot of stuff right, they just were not around long enough to perfect things

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[the_hyren]

O yeah don't get me wrong they CAN be good. But vanguard used 3 different styles of o rings in the design.

Astm
Metric
And some weird euro size I had the worst time tracking down.

And yes the grips, they are the same grips on the creed. (Tip, some angel grips will fit and if you can get them in clear you can still see the screen)

Vanguard did a lot of stuff right, they just were not around long enough to perfect things

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Don't recall many if any metrics. I do know the newer model had several on the sleeve valve they used as a pseudo QEV. And you also need to sand inside the body to round some edges so those orings last.

I do have clear dye angel grips on the one I use. Just a pain to see the screen. ANS found a crate of them a few months back so I grabbed 25 lol. $5 each was too cheap for me to pass up.

The screen and programming is very nice. Since the OP is 90-95 its very smooth and quiet. And for whatever reason it's pretty efficient, 14+hopper on my 88ci which is about 4 pods better than my CVO. Though Im hoping the AMP will get at least 16+H.

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[jerryjjackson69]

I thought FASOR was a class that specifically described stack tube poppets with an Air ram and spring return, although by strict definition FASOR does describe a much wider selection of markers. By definition, mags and minis are FASORs, but no one calls them that because the FASOR classification wasn't created with them in mind. FASOR is used to describe Wraths, Legends, Primals, BKOs, etc. At least that was the impression I was under. Maybe FASOR was always meant to include mags, minis, etc. I'm really not sure.

[Trbo323]

I thought FASOR was a class that specifically described stack tube poppets with an Air ram and spring return, .

According to who? And who decides they have the authority to decide what the whole industry calls something?

I can just about guarantee what I consider a "mid range" marker will differ from what you do

If you want to go just by the words of it, there's nothing that says it has to be a poppet, or stacked tube

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[jerryjjackson69]

According to my memory? Which I think I was pretty clear about, a well as the fact that I'm pretty open to being incorrect and it was just the impression I was under? I'm not sure what ruffled your feathers into being so combative today, but I hope it gets better!

I'm actually curious what you would consider "mid-range". I consider most of the cheaper electronic markers to be "mid-range" in the grand scheme of paintball markers. Minis, Ethas, Axes, etc. I would exclude most electronic markers that are sear-tripping based, I think those fall into the upper-low range. Stuff over $500 I consider low-high-end (the 160r, 170r, RSX/XLS, DSR), and then you have the high end that runs from 1K and up, whether it's $1000 and not the "flagship product", or the premium flagship product, it all falls in the high-end category. There are exceptions to most of these in my mind, but that's a general overview for you. I think it's a pretty generally acceptable system, so I am curious to see if we differ like you think we will, even if it is off-topic (Sorry OP!)

[Jordan]

According to who? And who decides they have the authority to decide what the whole industry calls something?

I can just about guarantee what I consider a "mid range" marker will differ from what you do

If you want to go just by the words of it, there's nothing that says it has to be a poppet, or stacked tube

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ICD, if memory serves... they did invent them, after all.

[Trbo323]

ICD, if memory serves... they did invent them, after all.

Dye largely gets credit for the spool valve(although I don't actually know if that's true but let's say it is for now) If they come out tomorrow and say they are the only company that makes spool valves does that mean we all will change the name of the valve in the ion, shocker and automag to a "coconut valve" just because dye says so?

If the wording/definition of a fasor is so lose that you can use it to describe other markers that are functionally similar, what's wrong with that?

You can always call the icd and similar markers "stacked tube fasors" if you want to be more clear about the design

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[the_hyren]

I've heard mags referred to as blow forward designs. While fasor does usually mean a stacked tube. Zspbd (probably got the letters in the wrong order...) does make this distinction in the big list. Calling markers without poppits blow forward rather than fasor.

But regardless of terminology the moral of the story is that it is a ton of work to make most markers into mechs. The pre-g6r timmies are the best candidates I can think of since the body has barbs by default. The icd promaster and evil pimp are also reasonable though there is less space in the frame for all the stuff required.

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[Jordan]

Dye largely gets credit for the spool valve(although I don't actually know if that's true but let's say it is for now) If they come out tomorrow and say they are the only company that makes spool valves does that mean we all will change the name of the valve in the ion, shocker and automag to a "coconut valve" just because dye says so?

If the wording/definition of a fasor is so lose that you can use it to describe other markers that are functionally similar, what's wrong with that?

You can always call the icd and similar markers "stacked tube fasors" if you want to be more clear about the design

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Nah, I'll keep calling Mags blow forwards, 'cause that's what they are, and continue to call spoolies spoolies.

I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong. The best part here is that we live in separate countries, both free, and we can continue thinking that about each other. 🙂

[glaman5266]

I thought 'mags were spoolers, just of a different sort. I have heard them referred to as blow-forwards too, though.

[Jordan]

Tom Kaye called Mags "blow forward" to differentiate them from the other blowback semis of the day.

They are, essentially, an early form of spool valve that uses a mechanical means to return (spring) and retain (sear) the bolt.

What we call a spool valve today originated in the Omega, a prototype marker that turned into the Matrix and was invented/developed by a Canadian, who sold to Diablo, who sold it to DYE, who then refined it into the DM line we have today.

There are obviously some steps in there that have been glossed over, and there is a fair amount of stuff to read out there on the matter that I find interesting.

[glaman5266]

Ah, OK. Thank you for that tidbit of information. I knew about the Matrix & it's Canadian origins, but never heard of that prototype.