Carter Comp

[F1FX]

Any idea what a late 80’s carter comp are going for?

[Hellion360]

If that is supposed to be a picture it is not working for me.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Picture isn’t working.depends on how clean / complete and how it’s Setup.

[Alexndl]

I came for the pictures... no picture

[Riot]

If it’s the gold one, I’ll buy it back!

[F1FX]

[Painthappy]

I'm thinking that's an NW Comp. But could be wrong....

[F1FX]

As far as I know, this one is a carter, I also have a NW comp. The pump handles are slightly different between the two along with the frame, but otherwise very similar.

[F1FX]

[F1FX]

[Ecapnation]

I think those are both NW comps... The green is a "green machine" version

Biggest tell... Rougher grips and the screw holding them on.

[F1FX]

Interesting. There are a few other differences that made me think the black one was a carter but maybe its an early nw? The sight rail looks to be removable on the black one as it looks to be held on by a screw, but on the green one it looks to be glued on. The bolt on the green one is beveled, same as on my nw spitfire, where the black one has a more conventional bolt. The other factor that made me think it was a carter is the frame is not drilled and does not have a serial number stamp.

[Grendel]

Yup, I'm with Painthappy and Ecapnation those are NW Comps. There is a good reason why they look like Carters, Nikki and Aaron were a thing at one time. Lot of gossip about that but I have had several NW Comps through my hands and I'm positive those are from Nikki not Aaron. Most early Comps did not have the back bottle ASA but the CO2 cartridge changer valve bodies but Nikki kept up with the Tournament rules and did make them with back bottle ASAs. What you have are the early Comps with the Carter Style grip frames, this is before Nikki adopted the M-16 style grips that were mounted more vertical.

I always liked the NW Comp and wish I had never let my Blue one go back in the late 90s. The Green one you have there is what I wanted.

In this link to some history you can see the Carter Comp and note the differences in the Pump handle, Carter's is more squared off, sharper, where the NW is more rounded - https://paintballhistory.com/1987-88-carter-comp/

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/nw-89-comp-gun-pump-1989-paintball-190584450

[F1FX]

If going by the article is accurate, it looks like the black is a carter comp. Frame matches up perfectly (grips are slightly different, mine does not have wings), same bolt and hammer. The black pump handle is more squared off while the green one is slightly rounded. Looking at some other details, the frame height is slightly lower on the green but my black one matches up and looks to be same as the one in the article.

[Grendel]

When you get to the real early NW Comps there was almost no difference between them and what Carter was making. At that time I am not sure either NW or Carter could be considered doing "mass" production so there were small differences between each NW comp I saw and how much alike they were are one of the beefs between Nikki and Aaron from what I understand. From the images you have shared (even in the post after this one) I am still leaning to the black one being an early NW Comp not a Carter but I could be wrong. I had way more experience with NW products (Vanguard Paintball was an NW dealer) then I did Carters since Vanguard was on the East Coast. One of the things to me that point to the Black one being an NW is the weld on the feedneck. On the early NWs they definitely had the ugly welds that were not ground down. In my limited experience with Carter markers I seem to remember the welds being ground down before anodization. It wasn't until later production units that Nikki did more detailing prep before anodization. As I said I could be wrong I suppose we need a Carter expert to chime in. Have you reached out to Bacci? He is more in tuned with Carter than a lot of players.

[F1FX]

I aways assumed it was a carter due to the differences between the two but with so many people thinking otherwise, it would be nice to confirm what it is. I have not reached out to bacci, thanks for the tip and the info.

[F1FX]

[Jonnydread]

I love the greeeeeeeeen

[Chuck E Ducky]

The color Reminds me of Dave’s custom.

[F1FX]

Yes the color on the mean green is awesome. This was my 2nd paintgun I owned. I had a few others with different configurations but over time sold those and just kept this one. I’ve had the green one now for 34+ years.

[bacci paintball]

It's always hard to identify this variation. Usually the defining factor is not the grip center screw but the NW stamping on the base of the grip.

I have a few comps that are slightly older than this model and they have identical or similar screwed on grips but they use the plastic pump handle.

More recently through talking to various people that worked with Earon, it's become clear that all variations of pump handles for a few years after this model comp use this more rounded handle bt cut up. He would take this version pump handle and either flatten the sides or add more cuts to it to make it custom.

Here is an archived post on mcb about the differences between a Carter Comp and an NW Comp:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130819002333/http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/carter-machine/228107-carter-nw-comp-pic-attached.html

My post from mcb long ago (with a couple changes) is below explaining many of the differences that I know between the two paintguns along with what Earon told me when I brought up the question.

Post some pictures of your powertube? Maybe the power tube differences will help?
_____________________________________________

Earon told me that he had a brief relationship with NW and when the relationship ended she took one of his comps and ripped it off. But I think there is more to it than that.

Earon mentioned that he worked with Jay Wilson of Tri Jay machining on various projects including the Tri Car (Tri J and Carter=Tri Car) and I imagine machining some of his original comp parts.

Nicky Wilson was a relative of Jay Wilson and had Tri Jay make her NW comps.

Seems possible that Tri Jay was making some of the parts for both pumps at the same time to produce a larger run and bring costs down for both parties?

External variations:

Carter:
Early comps used the low profile sight rail (same as NW) and later comps used tricar style sight rail.
Some have flat edges on the front and back of the pump handle.
Steel sight pin at front of barrel, some used a fluorescent dot.
Some used bolt through center of frame, most used glued on grips. Most have the hole for the bolt in the center of the grip frame regardless of whether they used it.

NW:
All used low profile sight.
All used round pump handles
Brass front sight pins
Serial number on base of grip frame

Later NW Comp 1 Bolt:

https://baccipaintball.com/nel2407.html

Later NW Comp 1 Hammers:

https://baccipaintball.com/nel2408.html

https://baccipaintball.com/nel2409.html

Besides the external variations (pump handle, screw through grip, sight rail, lead sight pin vs brass) there are also internal differences which are present, although Earon likely changed parts constantly so this also might not be a sure sign one way or another. I think NW was a little more consistent with parts.

Carter Internals:
Anti Kink Full bolt with allen or 4 hole adjuster.
Three port powertube, possibly a short tube.
Bolt/Hammer combo isn't compatible with NW internals (smaller anti kink?).

NW Internals:
Anti Kink bolt with edge shaved off in feedport.
Early internals were parkerized, later were nickel plated
Bolt/Hammer combo isn't compatible with Carter internals (larger anti kink?).
Long powertube with 2x base holes angled up not straight through.

[F1FX]

Thanks for the info! With additional information and photos from several members, I think it matches up to a carter more than a NW. It really comes down to the small details to differentiate the two. And with small changes in production with both over time it makes it really difficult to say 100% as small details that made me think one way, then I would see a photo that proved my logic wrong, for instance most pics of NW shows the frame base to have a lower height and not as wide, but while looking up photos of NW comp I came across one that has the wider frame. It was stamped with a sn so for sure it was a NW frame. But one thing I did notice different about all the frame beside the trigger, SN on the bottom and tapped for stock/bottom line was the NW had an additional hole for a pin to help lock the wood grips in place where as non of the carter frames I saw had this hole drilled. The other difference are the internals bolt/hammer/sear/powertube and cupseal. I suppose all of these are replaceable so technically I guess someone could have swapped all of the parts before I got it years ago or maybe the first few original NW comps use same parts as Carters but Im leaning that is not the case.