Best hopper for Automag discussion.

[Calvin]

I am getting ready to sink a decent to me amount of money into a hopper system (two hoppers for redundancy) for my classic lvl 7 Automags. I had already decided that I was going to go with the Dye LTR and would run it with lowish tension settings. All of my twistlock barrels are running modern TPU detents, and I am running Docs double detent AC adapter on the one lowrise centerfeed mag. The two right feed mags will be using sconi lean adapters on necks custom cut to their size, so the total ball stack length on them is 2.5" from the bottom lip of the hopper to the bottom of the bore. Extensive reading through old posts here and at Automags.org had indicated that best results would be a tension sensing hopper, of which the Rotor series by Dye is the only one. Other sensor types, which either sense a gap in the ball stack, listen for sound of firing, or do both, seem better suited for power feed bodies with longer ball stacks.
Sleepily going back through some posts last night, I found a couple people saying the rotors are the loaders they didn't like the most with mags. Is this simply a factor relating to older style plastic and wire detents, or single detents in ULE mag bodies and old Docs AC adapters? What are the loaders you all have had the most success with for the mag platform on non-powerfeed bodies? I really prefer to buy once and cry once on this purchase.

[Tinybear]

With a classic valve you will do fine with most any of the electric hoppers. You only really need to worry about a true force feed when you start getting into RTing mags for that Rotor or Halo really the only ones to keep up. When I had last RTinf setup I ran a Rotor LTR after first experimenting and failing with a Pinokio.

I have run both my classic valved mags (ULE Center feed body and cut down power feed) with a simple Revy and it functions perfectly. Now I run a Spire IR as I prefer the lower profile easier cleaning. It works again flawlessly.

Love the spire simple small and light and jam free. Rotors suffer a bit with todays micro paint so unless you NEED the speed I’d recommend the spire over the rotor.

[ChuckLove]

Any of the modern Spire or CTRL loaders would work great for your needs. They're light weight and feed exceptional up to about 14bps. As Tinybear mentioned, the Spire iR2 is the best bang for your buck. You can also upgrade it to the N-Charge rechargeable battery pack which lasts a long time.

[Olsson]

I would recommend a lvl-10 bolt over agonizing over what hopper to get.

The miniscule paint of today creates an inherent problem with all tension hoppers, though to no fault of the original design of the hopper. Bascally the second ball in the stack will get hit by the bolt pushing the ball into the barrel, making that second ball prone to breaking when you next fire it.

This problem can be mitigated to a great degree by using a lvl-10 bolt, since apart from not chopping, it is also a bit gentler on the paint, going forward on trigger pull compared to the lvl-7. Furthermore, since you now can use an agitated gravity hopper, when that second ball in the stack inevitably gets whacked, there is no tension on it.

I have had days on end not breaking any paint with my twistlock, right feed Automag and a VL Revvy, when guys with electros and force feed hoppers have had problems breaking paint. Each and every time it has been due to the paint being so small that the second ball in the stack gets hit.


However, if - and that is a big if - paint gets reasonably sized again, please disregard this solution, since the problem in question will be a non issue.

[superman]

The reason people choose the rotor over the spire or others is because there is literally no delay in the 2nd ball being pushed into the breach. If you have fast fingers and shoot quickly from ball 1 to ball 2, you can chop with a spire, control, etc. It doesn't have to do with the BPS it feeds, but the delay in feeding.

I got to the point where i couldn't do a video with a spire because i was chopping regularly.
For most people the spire or control will work, but if you have fast fingers especially with a mech you will hate it.

Also worth noting you can use twistlock barrels with rotors, the problem is the small paint. I make these that work with small paint through (https://beardedworks.com/products/bw-twistlock-detents). Hellion has a thread where he continues updating how much paint he has through the one he has in his marker.

[Hellion360]

Haven't updated that recently. but the original is still in use. https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/p...-testing/page2

a product that i give two thumbs up on and offer to install in customer mags that come in. I don't work on a ton of mags, but it has been a hit with the users on my end that took them.

(I use a rotor on all my mags)

[herncrek]

I run a revvy on both RT valve mags. Get a level 10 and you’ll be good to go. 👍

[Calvin]

I purchased a brand new lvl 10 bolt kit from airgundesigns.shop.
I have spent 2 hours and probably 10 valve removals-fuck around-valve reinstall cycles trying to install. I did this in a sober state, with a clean desk, a quiet house, and the installation videos in front of me. I still havent gotten the damn thing to cycle. This is with classic on/offs, rt on/offs, in multiple guns. Velocity nut jammed in till it vents on guns I had shooting well over 300fps (at the chrono only) with lvl7 components. Used both springs, multiple carriers.
While the problem is undoubtedly me, I don't think an assembly so fussy is one which I want to bank my playing experience on. Furthermore, I spent 110.00 on it, which would go up to 330.00 in all 3 guns. I would prefer to make my robust level 7 setups work to their absolute best, and simply grab the next one in line if I have an issue at the field. There is plenty of time for cleaning at home.

I purchased two packs of BW TPU detents, and I printed some up as well. I love the system, and it seems to work well.

[superman]

you need to start with the largest carrier size and use the same inner carrier oring everytime you change sizes.

[Calvin]

Well, I sat down one more time, cleaned the workbench, and laid the parts out in front of me. I took the one gun I hadnt touched in my previous attempts, and installed the level 10 bolt in it. I read through another guide I hadnt seen before on paintballforum.com. This one said to put no shims in to start, and to use the red spring. I did that this time, cranked up the velocity, and it fired right up. I tested the anti chop with some old macroline, and its working. This kind of shit drives me crazy. I can tell mags are robust once they are up and running, but they also have a mind of their own that I have not experienced in other designs. I'm glad the level 10 bolt kit can now be used, but I don't think I will buy more of them at 110.00 a pop.

[superman]

You should use the gold spring it will be more efficient, but not as soft on paint.

[MrBarraclough]

I use OG Rotors on my mechs, including my Level 7 Minimag that has an older single detent Doc's adapter. I'm pretty sold on the conviction that constant ball stack pressure is the way to go, though I understand the concern about potential clipping right at the breech. That hasn't been an issue for me so far, which I attribute to using the long nosed Level 7 foamieless bolt, and not going crazy with the tension setting in the Rotor. When I had my flatter, old ANS Venturi bolt in there, I had more trouble. On superman 's advice, I reverted to my stock long nose and found it worked much better (with zero surprise that he was right).

I still hesistate to run super fragile tourney paint in a mag because of the operating pressure and tendency to blow up paint further down the barrel, but for rec ball with field grade and even mid-grade paint it has been fine.

[Calvin]

That hasn't been an issue for me so far, which I attribute to using the long nosed Level 7 foamieless bolt

This is the bolt type I am using. I believe it to be the one referred to as "long nosed". Please correct me if I am wrong, as I do have the other style AGD foamiless available as well.

Do you think the Dye LTR is as good as the OG Rotor or the R2 for this use case, or are there advantages to the other models?

Edit: I read through the Dye LTR manual, and it doesn't say anything about tension adjustment. If it doesn't have that, it might be an issue.

[nak81783]

The LT-R has tension adjustment, but you're right it's not mentioned in the manual. Adjust it as mentioned in the manuals for the other Rotors.

[MrBarraclough]

Looks like the long-nosed version to me, the distinguishing feature being how the domed center protrudes above the body.

To my knowledge, LT-Rs are internally identical to the original Rotor, they just have top shells that lack windows and are therefore cheaper to make.

Tension adjustment is done by removing the battery and motor assembly and adjusting the set screw next to the button. Default setting is pretty close to flush. Turning it in will increase tension.

[1snowridr]

Rotors only .com, I do try and own others but these are hands down the best for Mags.

[Trbo323]

I agree with the majority opinion here and have experience in this exact scenario.

I have a x valve that I typically run with a RT pin.

With my spire the hopper can not react fast enough from ball 1 to ball 2 and will often chuff which kicks the marker off of the RT

My rotor can keep up without problem though

So if you plan to do any RT business get a rotor, if not and owning both I say the spire is the better hopper imo

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[Calvin]

From last weekend, I can confirm that the LTR is fantastic with a centerfeed classic mag running a lvl 7 bolt with Doc's AC adapter.

I just put the LTR on my right feed classic with a lvl10 bolt and gold spring. This setup is using a sconi lean elbow and twistlock barrels with 3D printed TPU detents. I ran 150 rounds through a Dye Boomstick, and it ran every bit as flawless as the centerfeed setup did. I subsequently put on my RT stock barrel with double TPU detents to see if they gave the lvl 10 bolt any issues, and it also threw about 30 flawless balls rapidly. I'm pretty confident that the LTR is going to work perfectly with anything that isn't a powerfeed. I simply haven't tried it with one of my powerfeed bodies yet. Given how much I prefer the RF, it might be awhile. At the very least, I can definitively report that the sconi lean elbows work reliably with a force feed loader like the LTR or Rotor. It also places the center of gravity right over the centerline of the gun when loaded up. It seems to be the best of both worlds. I will be using the RF\sconi setup next time I play.