My automag currently has a level 10 bolt and a classic valve. i like the idea of getting a ULT kit and that requires an xvalve. From what i have read there is some setup for both. Most of the articles i found were from warpig from a bit ago. From my understanding the main setup for the level 10 bolt is the shims and the spring and for the trigger kit the shims. I then read its good to fire it a bit before actual use at the field. Most guides seem to mention a good amount of setup but this doesnt seem too much. From what i have read there seems to have triangulated on a good number for the shims for the bolt and for the ULT kit. Is there more to the setup? Or maybe i am not giving enough credit to the initial shim adjustments needed to take place?
-
-
The X-valve comes with the lvl10 kit installed. I may have just gotten lucky, but both x-valves i have purchased new from AGD have not need further setup of the lvl10 and both worked flawlessly out of the box (one has 10k rounds through it so far with no issues). If you buy a new x-valve then you should just have to install the ULT and be good to go.
Check out https://airgundesigns.shop/product/x-valve/. 19 in stock...
The one lvl10 i have installed in a classic valve, i did at the field and got it sorted in an hour or two of adjusting o-ring squish and shimming while playing with it. It helps to have a source of air on site for constant refills
-
I appreciate the comment and personal experience with that StaticShocked ! The line at the end "Installation of an X-valve will require installation and fitting of the Level 10 bolt kit." is what made me wonder maybe if i would need some tinkering or not. Like you said the x-valve comes with the bolt installed already.Comment
-
Yeah, when i bought them i was wondering the same thing, but didn't have to thankfully. I wonder if whoever is assembling the x-valves is good enough at gauging bolt-to-oring feel after all these years they rarely need further adjustment. Maybe AGD just says that they will need setup so if it does, someone is already expecting it.
-
-
The X-valve is worth the small amount of tuning because once you do, you're talking about countless cases of paint running flawlessly for years.Comment
-
The lvl 10 should be tuned for each marker it's in. Small differences can get it into a setup where it doesn't work.
Set velocity and then go up in shims until it leaks and then back down one.
The ult trigger is Ehh in my opinion. I have an x valve with all 3 on/offs. There 2 real problems with the ult are
1) while the trigger pull is lighter, it's not light enough to the point you can walk the trigger. So you typically still end up pulling the trigger with 2 fingers. Is it faster? Maybe a bit but not by a huge margin
2) it's somewhat fiddly. I've had a fair bit of leaks and it just got to the point where it was more annoying than useful. I ended up switching to the RT more and it's been much more reliable. I'm planning on doing a pnumag mod down the road though because I really wanted the walkable trigger on a mag
Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk
I use Tapatalk which does NOT display comments. If you want me to see it, make it a post not a comment.
Feedback
https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...323-s-feedbackComment
-
Just my opinion:
Stick with your Classic Valve with Level 10 and put an RT On/Off in it. The RT On/Off will lighten the pull some, but in a Classic Valve, it won't offer the harder trigger reset like it does in an RT/X-Valve.
If you decide to go with an X-Valve, a ULT is not worth the problems - not much faster but much easier to short stroke, leak, etc.
Tuning a Level 10 is pretty simple.
1. Use the largest bolt oring carrier that doesn't leak. Make sure you're using the same bolt stem oring throughout the bolt oring carrier fitting process.
2. Start with the gold bolt spring
3. Set to desired velocity.
4. Start with no shims. Using a squeegee/swab, NOT YOUR FINGER, shoot the marker with the squeegee/swab blocking the bolt. If the marker/bolt resets, leave it as is. If it doesn't reset unless you pull the squeegee/swab away from the bolt face or have to reset the bolt manually, add a shim. Repeat until the marker/bolt resets when hitting the squeegee/swab. Shims are just to set the vent point if there's a blockage; they don't set bolt/chop sensitivity.
5. Make sure you're using a hopper that can keep up with your rate of fire.
6. If you're never or very rarely chopping (not breaking) paint, leave it as is. If you're breaking (not chopping) paint with a Level 10 (even a poorly tuned Level 10), there's likely something wrong with the paint or it's extreme fragile tournament paint. If you're frequently chopping paint, move up to the red spring. You'll have to up the pressure via the velocity adjustment to use the stiffer/longer spring. You may have to trim a quarter coil of the spring at a time if the marker won't fire at field safe velocities with the red spring. Put the cut end of the spring such that it makes contact with the large diameter of the bolt. When adjusting for optimum reliability and bolt sensitivity/chop balance, you want the marker to start firing 30-50 fps below your desired velocity.
I would not use tighter carriers to make the bolt easier on paint. It is very unreliable to do it that way. Just use the bolt springs.
Also, make sure you're snugging up the field strip screw with a wrench. A loose field strip screw can cause misalignment issues that cause false leaks and other deceptive nuisances during setup.
All of the Level 10s I've set up over the years work fine with steps 1-3 using mid-grade paint and a modern electric hopper. The only time I had to use a different setup was when I didn't have a fast enough hopper, so I'd chop. I don't see that as the marker's fault though.
I think the best aspect of the Level 10 is it's slower initial bolt speed, making it break less paint compared to a Level 7. Modern hoppers should prevent chopping. No need to sacrifice reliability by tuning the Level 10 for super sensitive bolt sensitivity/anti-chop with modern hoppers.
Comment
-
I have will offer another opinion based on my experience. I have replaced my On/Offs in 4 XValves. 2 being Lukes Hybrid, 2 being ULT.
The Lukes are softer but maintain a great pull. I have the .70 in my regular configuration and standard .72 in a pnuemag. They are both great. I dont really care for the RT effect.
My ULTs are both very very light. One has 3 shims and the newest has 4 shims and will RT a little bit it has less than a case through the valve so eventually i will remove a shim or it will break itself in. The ULT in the pnuemag (when I had it there) was insanely light and walkable without a doubt. They do require a little more attention.
Since tank input matters...All mine are currently fed through a Ninja V3 measured output is 765 psi.
I enjoy messing around so a little tinkering doesnt bother me.
Comment
-
Hey everyone I really appreciate all the insight! I actually do have an rt on/off which did improve things a bit. While I wasn’t hoping for walkable I liked the idea of the ult to give it a pull similar to the emeks. It sounds like the ult is very finicky and I don’t like the sound of air leaks. Maybe I’m trying to make my Mag into something it isn’t?Comment
-
I use Tapatalk which does NOT display comments. If you want me to see it, make it a post not a comment.
Feedback
https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...323-s-feedbackComment
-
Ult is walkable here was my last build in 2014 xvalve lvl10 and Ult
https://youtube.com/shorts/rM0xo177f...vFM2X4Ger3_T-4Comment
-
I concur, the ULT is very walkable. It's not quite Emek light, but it's not bad.I can haz feedback?
If I owe you feedback, just remind me, as I sometimes forget.Comment
-
Setting up the L10 is easy. Just lay out all of your carriers in front of you on the table in order of size. Take a couple of the L10 white orings. Start with the #0 or #.5 and using the same oring snap it into the carrier and try it for fit on the bare bolt stem. It should be just snug and not too tight. If it is too loose go to the next size smaller carrier using the same oring. If it too loose it will leak. I never use the shims unless you get a problem valve. Start with the gold spring then go to the red spring for final adjustment. You should just be able to shake the bolt off while holding the carrier. Just snug is perfect. It will eventually wear and you will need to go down to the next smaller carrier if and or when it leaks. I have installed them and shot 10 cases without touching anything. Let me know if you need more.Comment
-
Thanks for all the advice guys! I decided i am going to get the x valve and the ULT kit and if i dont like the ULT i can always go back to my RT On/Off. I also decided to try out a ULE style rail vs the classic one i have now.Comment
-
Small update. I have all the parts and assembled them and for one glorious moment the ULT trigger worked well and the level 10 bolt was working and all was good with the world. I then heard a small his from the barrel while it was happening and things seemed off. Also i was noticing a reactive trigger effect with the ULT trigger which seemed odd. I turned the air off and tried again and it just leaked out of the barrel. I tried the rt on/off and same thing it leaked out of the barrel and the trigger wasnt getting reset. The on/off ASA my compressed air was connected to did blow an o ring however and i fixed that but i am now out of compressed air. I am going to get some more air soon and try again. Will report back results. It does look cool as hell with the x valve and the ule rail.Comment
Comment