Jack Wood should retro a new line of PE Autocockers

[the_matrix_guy]

Let's have fluid conversation on Autocockers and the resurgence of mech PB at all levels.

Jack Wood should retro a new line of PE Autocockers. There I said it! Shots fired! How many of you think that Jack Wood should give the market what they want? After all, the market has spoken. Autocockers aren't exactly niche anymore. They've made a comeback, officially. Their popularity has surged in the last few years at every level, even on the pro tourney scene with the return of professional woodsball and mech leagues. People are paying top-dollar for Autocockers again. A market value increase that has ramped up exponentially during the past 10 years or so. We have a handful of OEM's producing new Autocockers today, in 2020-2021. The nostalgia for the "Golden Years" is palpable. And PE is missing an opportunity to monetize it. PE is an immensely popular company. The biggest PB company today. And the economics might not make sense to such a PB powerhouse right away given their current success -- and production streamlining. But what if they're not seeing the bigger picture? What if they're leaving untold sums of money on the table by not tapping into the resurging interest in Autocockers which has seen prices skyrocket in the past ten years. I know personally, I would buy a new Eclipse Autococker in a heartbeat given that they're produced with Belsales components. What do you guys think? Would you buy a new Eclipse Autococker? What if we made a petition.

Kind regards,

TMG

[Ego10Baller]

I'm down

[Magmoormaster]

He's not going to do it. He has no interest. And even though I won't ever put down my autococker for a modern mech, the market has indeed spoken and cockers lost. Most of the cocker groups online have slowly shrunk to a small handful of the hardcore fans and collectors. The cocker resurgence has been shortlived.

[the_matrix_guy]

I disagree. The accumulation of highly sought after pieces is unprecedented. People are paying top dollar. Highly sought after models simply don't last in the open market. And you don't see many being sold. BPS, Shocktech, and FreeFlow couldnt keep their's in stock, although they were limited batches. We see professionals at the top of the gun shooting Autocockers again in the professional mech and woodsball leagues. Cocker groups online are not really giving you a good idea. And Customcockers as a site is not maintained anymore, and basically dead. I can't retrieve my old password OR make a new account. The security check doesn't prompt.

Matrices is a similar scenario. You don't see a lot of activity on forums, etc. But you don't see people selling their markers, and when they pop up they get scooped up instantly. Personally, I know a handful of collectors and they havent been active on social media, etc. But they are gladly holding on to their stock.

[ChuckLove]

Unfortunately Jack has said multiple times that they will not make any more autocockers.

[Magmoormaster]

I disagree. The accumulation of highly sought after pieces is unprecedented. People are paying top dollar. Highly sought after models simply don't last in the open market. And you don't see many being sold. BPS, Shocktech, and FreeFlow couldnt keep their's in stock, although they were limited batches. We see professionals at the top of the gun shooting Autocockers again in the professional mech and woodsball leagues. Cocker groups online are not really giving you a good idea. And Customcockers as a site is not maintained anymore, and basically dead. I can't retrieve my old password OR make a new account. The security check doesn't prompt.

This is only partially true. CC is dead, yes. But the cocker groups on FB used to be huge 2 years ago, now it's just the collectors. High end guns are selling, but mostly [again] just to collectors. And most of the professionals have ditched cockers for the modern mech.

[the_matrix_guy]

The marker is not niche. There are tons of people buying Cockers. And I do know that most teams are shooting the modern mech guns, but you have a handful of professional teams
shooting Cockers, i.e. Image, Aftershock, Lockout (FF) etc Image won second place in the 2019 ICC, Dynasty won first:



Cockers are well represented: 2019 ICC:



I'm just saying, Jack is leaving money on the table, despite what he has said in the past, I think he can reconsider. I know dozens of people personally that would buy new PE Cockers, and there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of Cocker enthusiasts out there willing to do the same. Either way, a man can dream no?

[Chuck E Ducky]

I was there the most of the cockers went away when they made finals.

[Mr. Hick]

With covid currently making it difficult for PE to even meet demand for Emek's and other high end markers they sell why and the hell would they do a run of $1900 cockers that would sit on a shelf? Other companies are doing cockers, and PE really shouldn't.

[VonBraun63]

Speaking of Dynasty winning first and autocockers making a comeback. Ryan Greenspan has confirmed that they (field one) has finished both a New autococker and a New MVP-2. If Jack is content on letting others take the market then he is on track.

[the_matrix_guy]

Well put. He's literally walking away from hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[the_matrix_guy]

With covid currently making it difficult for PE to even meet demand for Emek's and other high end markers they sell why and the hell would they do a run of $1900 cockers that would sit on a shelf? Other companies are doing cockers, and PE really shouldn't.

How do you figure that they would sit on the shelf when BPS, FF, and Shocktech have been selling their's hand over fist? BPS was a limited run. But Shocktech has made the most in terms of numbers and they can hardly keep up with demand. They're always making new gens. And they always end up selling em

[fullofpaint]

As much as I love cockers, I would disagree that there's THAT much demand.

The Inception Twister run didn't even sell out, they firesale'd a decent portion of them. Shocktech has lots of models but they're not flying off the shelf. Freeflow is selling a good chunk with each run, but not making extras beyond what was ordered. Presumably the Field One guns will be a Freeflow collab so I don't really count those. Inception seems more interested in pushing their emek bodies and parts and have been discontinuing some of their cocker stuff.

Then basically no existing PE parts (besides remaking old Belsales stuff, exactly what Jack says he has no interest in doing) would carry over and as mentioned already PE can barely fill their demand for their current products.

Hell if they wanted to "make money" they could've just continued making Belsales parts, the demand for them is crazy. No point in investing that much capital to sell a couple hundred guns

[the_matrix_guy]

I disagree with the Shocktech comment, cause they have already made a couple hundred and they've sold them.The last batch will sell as well. Even the 09 SFL's sold like hot cakes. And you just said it: Belsales parts are in great demand. Exactly my point. They always have been. And ever since they stopped making them a few years ago -- the grey market value for them exploded. I wouldn't conflate Inception with the likes of Shocktech and Belsales. If PE were to make hundreds of Cockers, I'm 100% certain than they would sell even better than Shocktechs, which have sold tremendously well.

[Mr. Hick]

Granted: I don't own any. Everything I had seen from inception has been as good of quality or better than 90% of what is being gobbled up for "retro" parts on the market. They make a good cocker. They make good components. No one is selling out of shit when it comes to complete guns. if mid range autocockers were a hot ticket the empire ressy would be in the hands of every third player. it's not. Emeks, and other single tube guns are king of the hill now.

As much as my 14-18 year old self had a hard-on for anything that said Besales or "Evo" on it back in the day those products really just weren't so superior that they would do well enough on a come back. People would buy em up and realize that nostalgia got the better of their wallet. The market would flat-line and the demand would rapidly fall. The second hand market would likewise be obliterated.

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

I aint buying a marker over few hundred dollars (and even then its gonna take a lot of saving up and i have to want it more than anything else). Im Definitely not the market for it.

[the_matrix_guy]

Granted: I don't own any. Everything I had seen from inception has been as good of quality or better than 90% of what is being gobbled up for "retro" parts on the market. They make a good cocker. They make good components. No one is selling out of shit when it comes to complete guns. if mid range autocockers were a hot ticket the empire ressy would be in the hands of every third player. it's not. Emeks, and other single tube guns are king of the hill now.

As much as my 14-18 year old self had a hard-on for anything that said Besales or "Evo" on it back in the day those products really just weren't so superior that they would do well enough on a come back. People would buy em up and realize that nostalgia got the better of their wallet. The market would flat-line and the demand would rapidly fall. The second hand market would likewise be obliterated.

I never intended to make it seem like Autocockers could compete on a mainstream level. I know that like gaming consoles, the market is geared towards the mainstream. Just to continue my consoles vis-a-vis PC gaming analogy: revenues from consoles is higher, consoles make up a majority of the gaming market share, yet PC gaming companies still make a killing and satisfy a market. Autocockers aren't exactly niche either. As I alluded, Shocktech has already sold a couple of hundred guns. And relative to the size of the industry: those are really great numbers for high end markers. I'm sure the Inception Cockers are great. But I'm not sure if you've ever shot a Belsales or a Shocktech with a good trigger/sear/3 way/RAM setup. They are super smooth, you can shoot pretty fast with em too, and put 8-10 BPS ropes down with ease. So no it's not just nostalgia. I've owned enough Cockers to know that they were/are special. Can an Inception get close to that performance? Yeah. But it's not the same. And that's also why Shocktechs and FF's have sold better. Plus, there's a reason why woodsball, hyperball, and mechs have made a comeback at every level. It's more than nostalgia. It's a return to what made the sport & hobby great in the first place. My field is putting up hyperball fields again. They play mech only nights. And I know dozens of people personally that would never buy an Inception, yet they have Shocktechs, and would buy PE's in a heartbeat, myself included.

[Mr. Hick]

I'm not arguing the virtues of autocockers. I have owned a SFL and for a short time an EVO-X. They were phenomenal. My favorite all time gun is my 99 STO. I'm arguing the insanity that is requesting PE to run a small batch of a gun that they likely have zero materials, tooling or time to build. a couple hundred guns with less than 20% profit margin is undesirable compared to building the guns that the current dealer network is begging for.

[the_matrix_guy]

Not every company is big enough to walk away from hundreds of thousands of dollars. PE has the manufacturing capability to make 'em without disrupting their lines in any way. But PE is big enough that they can just choose not to.

[the_matrix_guy]

Ironically, I was perusing through the ICC website, and they have three videos posted on the main page, and you see ample Cocker representation. In fact the three videos all have Belsales and Shocktech Cockers on the stills:

Source: http://www.ironcityclassic.com/

[Chuck E Ducky]

Lots of people shot them. Most of them were shooting shockers Emek and M170R in finals. Smaller lighter more reliable setups. Jack has said a ton of times he’s not building cockers. Can’t say I blame him. His mech markers sell like crazy and are cheaper to produce.

[Ecapnation]

Cocker market is flooded no point.