ICS + Lazarus Valve

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  • TencenT
    Postin
    • Mar 2026
    • 139
    • Henderson, NV

    #1

    ICS + Lazarus Valve

    We've been working on an idea based on seeing other Derlin hammers and the fact that WGP sells the Lazarus valve so I have a feeling a few of you picked one up like I did and might be interested in what a weight reduction of the hammer could do. This first run came in just over 10 grams and the *very* rough math for it shows a roughly 20% efficiency increase at the valve. The stock ICS hammer and rear cap come in around 42 grams so the cycling mass alone should be significantly lower to say the least. Another comparable hammer would be the Jenny some of you may have personally run which is around 7g so you can expect a cycling feeling similar to that.

    Things you should know:
    1. only one exists today and we haven't thoroughly tested it. Assuming it works out we'll be making a small batch in a week.
    2. Efficiency: This is optimistic calculations at the valve without considering all the real world realities like friction, actual air flow, space monsters, time warps, what Reba Mcentire is doing today, etc. Another way to think about it is that it wont make the entire marker more efficient so expect no improvement and be happily surprised if it provides any for your setup.
    3. Spring: we haven't been able to source springs but the spring kits you all already own are about right. The optimal range from the math is 4-5lbf from the spring. Your IVG should be able to get your in range with most springs kits (lower end of spring strength options in your kits)
    4. Valve PSI: It's looking like 195psi will be the sweet spot.
    5. None of this is tested! I'll have significantly more information once I can get this dialed in and test out actually getting 290fps from it on my Karni.
    6. Will this work for a non Lazarus valve? Probably not, let me know.
    7. I'm an idiot, assume I'm wrong about all of this 😎

    What is it called:
    I'm calling it featherweight for now unless one of you fine gents has a better name.
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  • river031403
    User
    • Jun 2025
    • 329
    • Montebello

    #2
    Cool
    https://www.automags.org/forums/show...r!!LIMITED-RUN

    ​
    https://www.automags.org/forums/show...***FEEDBACK***
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    • dano_____
      Tinker Tinker
      • Jul 2020
      • 317

      #3
      The Richard Simmons hammer I love ics setups for fullblock cockers. Are you planning on this only using the threaded type rear block or have an insert to use on standard back blocks?

      Comment


      • TencenT
        TencenT commented
        Editing a comment
        10 internet points for the name, hilarious. Interesting idea being a conversion but not sure if it makes sense given it wouldn't have the half block cut which makes the Jenny variant desirable. If I'm not considering something please DM me, definitely possible I'm not understanding your question.

      • Chuck E Ducky
        Chuck E Ducky commented
        Editing a comment
        Non non threaded back blocks (standard back blocks) the cocking rod dose not screw into the back block like the Karni. So you would need a small insert that the Back Block can pull on. My personal favorite it’s the way TJD did his. The cocking rod is drilled and taped for a bolt and it has a lil aluminum / stainless collar that sits in the hole of the back block. CCM uses an Oring in the same spot that often goes missing that will eventually Mar up the back block cocking rod hole. I cut rubber grommets to fit mine so this doesn’t happen. But the TJD method is better.
    • Iseeo_0you
      Bunker Buster
      • Mar 2026
      • 130
      • The Land Of Worr

      #4
      Nice! You are coming out with some incredible stuff brother 😊.

      Comment

      • Chuck E Ducky
        Ragnastock Enforcer
        • Jul 2020
        • 6320
        • NY

        #5
        Originally posted by dano_____
        The Richard Simmons hammer I love ics setups for fullblock cockers. Are you planning on this only using the threaded type rear block or have an insert to use on standard back blocks?
        Looks like CCM has a new design similar to the way TJD did his but if you look at the right end of this picture the small little collar hold the cocking rod in Standard non-threaded back blocks. It would make your light weight ICS more universal.

        image.png

        Comment


        • TencenT
          TencenT commented
          Editing a comment
          Ah, I see what I'm you mean now. We'll look into this, thank you for explaining it.
      • river031403
        User
        • Jun 2025
        • 329
        • Montebello

        #6
        I have a build just sitting waiting for this stuff 😂 Sanchez karni
        https://www.automags.org/forums/show...r!!LIMITED-RUN

        ​
        https://www.automags.org/forums/show...***FEEDBACK***
        ​

        Comment


        • TencenT
          TencenT commented
          Editing a comment
          Did the Sanchez use a 11/16 valve? I'd have to double check my SM-1 but I think it's a 9/16, I could absolutely be wrong (usually am)
      • TencenT
        Postin
        • Mar 2026
        • 139
        • Henderson, NV

        #7
        Came in late yesterday, I'll be able to try it out some later to see how it does. As for the question about supporting legacy backblocks, it looks like we can, we came up with a different shaft design for that we'll be testing too after we get through this design which needs a few small tweaks.
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        • RPP
          You even shooty ball Bro?
          • Dec 2023
          • 537

          #8
          Ohhh I want.

          Comment

          • zmannz1984
            Rockin and Cockin
            • Sep 2026
            • 60

            #9
            You have my attention! I am about to take the plunge and restomod one of my nicer old school cockers. Keeping the 9/16 valve but going balanced and lightweight hammer. Now you got me thinking ics too lol. That would solve the missing profiled dye beavertail on my reflex🤔

            Comment


            • TencenT
              TencenT commented
              Editing a comment
              What is the balanced valve option for 9/16?

            • zmannz1984
              zmannz1984 commented
              Editing a comment
              Nova makes one.

            • TencenT
              TencenT commented
              Editing a comment
              Found it, got one on order I can throw into one of the bodies I have to test out. Thanks for making me aware of it!
          • TencenT
            Postin
            • Mar 2026
            • 139
            • Henderson, NV

            #10
            Well I can say the hammer definitely works unfortunately it's either consistently getting 583fps or my Chrono isn't working 🤣

            Not sure if I'll have time to hit the field tomorrow to try it on a trusty big red but since there's no functional issues and that obviously the Jenny hammers work we're going to batch out a few. Should be around ten for the first run and I'll have a price for them tomorrow and an expected release date. I'm not going to do pre orders but if you DM me I'll try to get everyone an opportunity in the order you reach out.
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            • TencenT
              Postin
              • Mar 2026
              • 139
              • Henderson, NV

              #11
              The classic ICS design is being made currently, we should have about ten for sale in the next few days. We also have a design for the adapting traditional back blocks to ICS as well, I'll have a picture and explanation for that as well asap.

              Legacy ICS style will be $60 shipped to the lower 48, if you need it elsewhere like our northern neighbors or overseas shoot me a DM so I can figure out shipping with you. The traditional back block conversion will be $65 shipped.

              Manual page is live if you are looking for more details.
              https://snapshotpb.com/manuals/featherweight
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