Deadlywind Barrel Doesn't Fit Old Breech

[minionPB]

Seeking any input on this issue. I have two breeches for my Phantom: a 2000's era CCI version, and a current production Extreme Velocity (EV) version. I also have a 2000's CCI barrel and a current production EV barrel. Both of these barrels fit both breeches.

Recently, I bought a Deadlywind barrel. For some reason it fits the EV breech but not the original CCI breech. When I try to screw it into the CCI breech, it seizes up after half a turn like the threads are wrong. I originally thought the Deadlywind barrel might just be slightly too large in diameter, but no; according to my dial calipers, the portions of the Deadlywind barrel that sit inside the breech are actually slightly smaller diameter than the EV barrel.

Could the threads on either the CCI breech or the Deadlywind barrel be cut to a slightly-too-tight tolerance? I can't think of anything else that might be wrong. If so, is there anything I can with basic home tools that might help them fit?

[grendal50]

Might be the profile of the threads themselves, Deadly winds might have a sharper edge.

[Chuck E Ducky]

There were some out of spec bodies made at one point. Not sure if it was on CCI or a knock off body that was just a lil off but close enough to pass for a CCI. But I have run into body and barrel combos that don’t work with standard phantom barrels. All the ones I have run into were gloss back but not quite as shiny as the Phantoms finish if you look close.

[Havoc]

They were CCI Mine was new in box bought in 2001

[Grendel]

ACME threads are fairly unforgiving on spec. This was one of the problems with WWA barrels they were hit and miss on what Phantom bodies they would work on.

[minionPB]

Might be the profile of the threads themselves, Deadly winds might have a sharper edge.

Could be; I can't quite tell by eye. Thread measurements do vary from each other now that I look at it. Deadlywind crests are about 0.032", valleys are ~0.040". EV barrel crests and valleys are both around 0.036".

There were some out of spec bodies made at one point. Not sure if it was on CCI or a knock off body that was just a lil off but close enough to pass for a CCI. But I have run into body and barrel combos that don’t work with standard phantom barrels. All the ones I have run into were gloss back but not quite as shiny as the Phantoms finish if you look close.

Interesting knowledge. My CCI body was purchased directly from CCI back in the day, and is silver anno, but I suppose neither of those things definitively precludes it from being out of spec.

ACME threads are fairly unforgiving on spec. This was one of the problems with WWA barrels they were hit and miss on what Phantom bodies they would work on.

Sounds like my problem may just boil down to tolerance stacking on the threads. I suppose my options are to either roll the dice on another Deadlywind adapter, or just accept that their barrel only works with my EV breech.

[Walker]

I had the same problem with a J&J Edge Kit, years ago.... I sent the backs to Mike and he recut the threads. I can't remember what he said the issue was.

[Mechstar]

It’s a known problem. There is a difference in some CCI bodies, and the timeframe you mention for when you purchased sounds about right.
I have had about 20 CCI bodies cross my path, and about 3-4 of them (including my current Silver Open Class breech) won’t accept most (newer) barrels, even CCI barrels, made during a different period. The “stock” barrel that is original to that marker fits fine…so in reality it seems like the body AND barrel thread spec were slightly different at some point. I had heard that it was a brief out of spec mistake, but in the history of the Phantom, that could be just a couple of runs from the machine shop or several years of production.

[808Jackal]

Around 2000 Mike said that someone at CCI had miffed up the barrel thread spec a tad or matched it to the DYE phantom threads at the time. The breeches from around that year till around 2005 I think could pretty much only take the stock barrel that the marker came with, or barrels made in the same batch, or DYE phantom threaded barrels. That was around the time that DYE started making barrels for the phantom. If you look at the threading, it's not ACME either, its shorter and thinner. This is also why DYE barrels of that age don't always fit other phantoms.

[Grendel]

Yup, not technically an ACME thread but a Trapezoidal Thread none the less (which ACME is the most common).

[Chuck E Ducky]

Was that an issue on early dye barrels only? I haven’t run into that and I have 4 or 5 of them. I wonder if that’s why Pb Gateway re thread and freak bored a few of them back in the day.

[808Jackal]

Most likely. A good portion of the DYE barrels I have recovered are in this thread pitch. As you can see, the pitch is wider and the threads come to a point. On the bottom is from a DYE stainless barrel from the time period. The top is a CCI with factory C bore for reference. The barrel will not screw in on some phantoms and just spin without threading on some others. On breeches from around serial #25,000 or so it screws right in.

[chrislognshot]

mike change the thread on phantom so they can use barrels bored out for freaks.so some has new and old style threading on barrel. so one barrel will work old body's from 90's and before. and other one will work on new threading phantoms. i can say that since have two types barrels that bored out for freaks and each one will only work on one gun not other.

[Chuck E Ducky]

No they are the same thread type he just removed the Oring groove.

[minionPB]

Follow up: I ordered a second DW phantom thread adapter, partially for science and partially for tinkering. Lo and behold, this one fits in both breeches, new and old! Of course now that I can screw it all the way in, I noticed a new problem. It seems that when I actually put a freak insert into the barrel, the barrel stops turning about 1/8" before the barrel shoulder would rest against the CCI breech mouth. Spins flush into the new EV breech though.

Lesson learned- just keep the new barrels with the new breeches where they belong.