ccm is out of business?

[fouge]

Hello.

I've been looking at ccm for some time and almost everything is out of stock. ccm is out of business? have they reoriented their production towards other activities?

Thanks

Fouge

[Shaftski]

Not quite dead yet.

They make a lot of money in other industries so probably pointing resources that way right now. They had a recent small product drop but stuff went fast.

[Milkstache]

Not dead but very slow and limited stock. I would call or email instead of waiting for things to pop up on their site.

[Loophole]

They are just slammed! Still great customer service. They'll reply to any email inquiries pretty much instantly.

[iamthelazerviking]

Yeah I didn't want to make a PSA about it but you can avoid paying 3x the cost for a used pump kit or anodized fittings, and many other parts (except for trigger frames they won't be making more any time soon), if you call or email. I was surprised at what they had available that doesn't show on the site.

[fouge]

Ok. Good news. Thanks

[ChuckLove]

I'm sure that someone that knows more can chime in. I believe that they don't have anywhere near as employee's as they once did. You can find a new gun available on ebay every couple of months from them. Same goes for their parts.
I emailed Lori (I believe that is her name) twice in the past year about getting on the list for their next gun. She said they would post on the website when they are taking pre-orders again. Yet I know people who have ordered gun from them since my correspondence with here. Really leaves me wondering what is really going on with CCM?

[ChuckLove]

Ego10Baller I thought the same until they told me their order date was after my initial email with her. The person who ordered that gun was a previous customer of theirs which makes me wonder if that was factor? Who knows? At this point I've built three snipers using their parts and no longer desire a production CCM anyway.

[Ego10Baller]

Oh, okay understood. That's strange and unfortunate to hear.

Fair enough; I'd argue that the marginal gains from a CCM-built marker vs a CCM'd sniper (especially when it comes to the cost difference between the two) isn't worth the crazy price that CCMs are going for these days. I'm glad to hear that the three builds are working out well for you

[fullofpaint]

FWIW, I've owned very nice non-CCM pumps, CCM parts builds, and CCM built guns. Hands down I'd choose a CCM built gun everytime, both my S6's are just on a different level of smoothness compared to anything else. I wouldn't pay the market price for one probably, but at the retail cost? Would definitely choose it over another option, unless I was willing to spend a LOT of time polishing and tuning.

Would really like to pick up an S6M, but spoke with Laurie just two weeks ago and she wouldn't evne confirm if the next run would be the S6M. Just said it would be a full body of some type.

[fullofpaint]

Said this before, but CCM has never been the same since they lost Rod and Melissa and they changed to only selling direct.

[Ego10Baller]

When did that change occur? I took a break from paintball in 2012 and only got back into it 4 years ago so I've been out of the loop on it

[fullofpaint]

They left in 2015, though I think CCM stopped B2B sales a few years before that.

There was talk of them coming onboard Niche when they were starting up but then they kind of imploded.

[Ego10Baller]

I see. Thank you for the insight -- very interesting on the Niche front as well...

[Cunha]

Everything they post on their website gets bought immediately and re-sold on facebook with scalper markup. Call them for the parts you need or email and they will help you out.

Regarding guns..they're pretty back ordered but same deal talk to them about what you need. Their stuff is still another spectrum of quality versus anything else paintball.

[sniper97]

I called them about a month ago, no new runs in progress, no dates. I asked if they were machining other parts and was told they were not. Paintball was their focus.

If you build a pump,CCM: lower tube, pump with AT and trigger frame...will it be like a CCM factory pump..I think it would.

[freedom]

Said this before, but CCM has never been the same since they lost Rod and Melissa and they changed to only selling direct.

i'd second this ^^

Rod and Melissa went to EMR one event and helped everyone, including me with a finicky reg.

[gabe]

Remember when CCM was run like an actual business and not just an enthusiast machine shop? Peppridge farm remembers.

But seriously I think they do this to create scarcity and drive the price of their guns up. If they were cranking out guns like the old CCM or Inception then they wouldn't be able to charge $1400 for a sniper and have people strung out for years waiting. And no, their quality isn't in a "different league". It's good but it's on par with Inception or most other manufacturers. There's no magic to it, CNC machining has brought tolerances to a pretty high level for everyone. Heck they don't even polish their guns or parts anymore which was their main selling point. Anyone with an old CCM gun with that gloss black that shines like a mirror knows what I mean.

[Milkstache]

Ya I really miss the polished pieces. I have most of a S5 but need a grip frame and pump kit. Getting those pieces in polished black is really expensive and parts are hard to find.

I'm just sad watching this company flounder and not do anything. At this point I'm hoping someone decent buys the company and starts making product again.

[Cunha]

Have you called CCM?

Polished costs more money because it costs more money.

They are producing with the petal to the metal all through the pandemic in CALIFORNIA they haven't eased up one second on production.

They are producing at maximum capacity. Increasing that capacity would require investment that is simply not justifiable.

They produce piles of product every single day in a hobby that is niche at best they bring world class quality that truly no one matches. You can make a decent body with a WGP extrusion or an empire extrusion like anyone else, but the CCM bodies are better, the concentricity the tube bore to the barrel is better than anything else. The extra 10% of excellence doesn't make you win games or anything, but their better and I've had CCM guns since the first series 5 I bought for 380 dollars new and the first J2 I bought for 620 dollars new and many older works guns purchased used and finish quality wise the new guns are equal to or better than the very best guns from earlier days.

Additionally, the valve they make today is a thousand times better than the old junk fart valves that Jason and Rod refused to stop making despite help from early dealers like "Spaceman"

I've been dealing with CCM for almost 20 years and the service and quality has been 100% the entire damn time and remains so today. Sorry that you are negatively impacted by the people that buy everything that hits their website to flip on facebook for profit. Call them and order what you need and be happy.

Seeing someone complain about the only company that makes a product I can buy and expect zero issues with quality and nearly instant turn around if I needed warranty repair or something really gets bums me out, because I can't imagine a company doing better besides sitting on a pile of inventory that doesn't sell waiting to go out of business.

And if you could see the old board you would find all my posts ragging on CCM's junk valve back when this forum was crawling with Talfuchre and fanboys. Over the years CCM has stayed true and I can't really let stupid ass comments about these guys be left unanswered. If you want mid grade parts that you might find sitting on dealer shelves you will be happy with inception stuff that is pretty much mass produced empire parts.

When you buy a polished gun from them today its being polished by fucking bill himself.

I don't like blasted finish parts either, but the tumbled finish they have is a perfect paintball finish that they offer at no extra charge and if you really want shiny, its there for money. I feel lucky to have these guys still involved in this shrinking sport.

[gabe]

I've emailed CCM on different parts for autococker builds but all I got was stories of long delays and availability issues. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're still around and I really like various products they make like the lower tube kit. My main gripe is just the constant issues with being out of stock and that breeding scalpers. If Bill is doing all the work and polishing then that doesn't speak to a higher degree of quality to me, it just seems like an inefficient use of time that they could hire more production on and grow the business. That's what Inception did and far from being "mass produced Empire parts" they are well finished, well designed, and are IN STOCK. I can dream of CCM parts all day long but that doesn't get my builds done. My main point is they're taking such a half assed approach to the paintball industry currently that they either need to go full boar and grow it like Inception has done or just get out entirely. This half in/half out "we make more money on other stuff" approach is elevating prices and growing a bunch of scalpers. It's hurting their customer base overall.

I mean, didn't you just wait like a year for a gun? Everyone is just buying their pump kits and SLPS spring kits and building a gun that works exactly as well. You can defend them just like others defend Palmers as a "custom shop" but these businesses are dinosaurs. They're only still around because they are riding their name and reputation for quality.

[Cunha]

PPS and CCM are extremely different companies. I'd defend both any day but they couldn't be more different besides that they're both based in California and are paintball companies.

Inception is out of stock on a lot of parts. I get their stock notification all the time. They sit on more inventory in general which is convenient, their parts are in moderate demand and not high demand so they've been able to keep more shelves full. In most ways they are in the same boat the main difference being inception parts are just not as nice so they aren't as popular. The price on inception parts in most cases is the same or more than CCM parts. Maybe CCM should raise their prices to reflect their premium status in the minds of consumers and they might sit on shelves longer to make you guys happy?

These guys make stellar parts and have since day 1 and I've got armchair commandos like Milkstache "Hoping someone decent buys the company and starts making product again" give me a break.

If CCM decided to stop making guns today they would all double in price and in two years people would be wondering why some other company doesn't step up to the plate as if producing dead nuts perfect parts is as easy as posting on a paintball forum or turning on a light switch. The economics of a paintball company are terrible and whatever CCM and any other small manufacturer has to do to keep giving me good quality parts, I'm okay with.

It would be another matter if their quality slipped in any way, but its not the case. They're just harder to get vs rotting on shelves at ANSGear like all the cargo containers full of chinese MFG shit that the entire rest of the industry is composed of.

[gabe]

I suppose you can argue their fit and finish is better but that's even a stretch. Their finish is on par with everyone else being available in just basic colors and in matte or simple machine tumbled finish. Tolerances...yeah they're good but not any better than others. I don't know where you're getting that they hold tighter tolerances than other companies. Their products to me are nice but pretty par for the course as far as fitment. Maybe if I examined every one with a micrometer maybe but they all fit and work the same. I will say that out of any company their parts have worked the worst for me. The bolts are loose in every WGP spec body I've tried and with no o-rings have horrendous blowback. The cocking rods are all made too long and aren't threaded down far enough to shorten them to get proper overtravel for an autococker. Feednecks are great when/if they are ever available. The on/off ASA is an outdated design as are their rails. I will grant the pump kits are a standout product but they have very little to hang their hat on as far as quality parts.

Even AKA is a one man show but he somehow manages to keep regulators and various autococker parts in stock and on the website so you can just order them. With CCM you have to keep checking back via email to see if they ever have stock. It's just exhausting and the reason why I've given up using CCM parts despite my love for their company and my history with them.

Don't take this as me just blindly not liking them; my first high end gun was a Series 5 pump in 2005 which I still have and all through the late 2000's and up to a few years ago I would go straight to them whenever I needed a feedneck, ASA, rail, or air fitting. But as of 2019 the inventory dried up off the website and I started getting these email responses that parts are on never ending backorder but "just keep checking back". Doesn't seem they even have a wait list or backorder option. With competition like Inception, Freeflow, AKA, and others keeping parts in stock or available through dealers I've just moved on. I still have several of their barrels but without the ability to get sizers they're useless.

Sure, hang it all on their "quality" but I'll just get Inception ASA's and feednecks, AKA regs, and other parts which as far as I can tell are just as nice, very fairly priced, and work the same or better. Since I don't take a micrometer to the field, can't see any difference, and the gun shoots the same I'll just move on and hope CCM decides to one day come back and be competitive in the market again. The fact that every other company still makes gloss parts that match my guns is just the icing on the cake.

[Cunha]

AKALMP has been out of stock for most of their regulators for years only just recently having stock on their website. And their price has gone from 70 dollars to 93 dollars on a regular sidewinder.

I'm not trying to convince you though, get whatever parts you like. I'm glad that CCM is still very much in business and making the nicest crap I've seen in paintball, matched and maybe exceeded only by AKALMP vikings and excaliburs really.

[Loophole]

I just reached out to CCM and they are making me a Pre-99 Mini Pump Kit after a few emails back and forth asking my specifications it is already in the works. I also asked about polished parts...they don't have a polisher on staff currently and have no intentions of getting one so Semi-Gloss and Dust will be the primary finishes you will see. Bill does do polished parts from time to time but they are going to be few and far between. Avoid the secondary markets and be extremely patient.

[Cunha]

The STO feedneck would be a cool thing. I don't think they have made them since whatever batch of them in like 2005 or something when the cocker market took a huge dive. Since cockers got value and people wanted those feednecks I don't think they've made em for a while. They were one of those items that CCM had in inventory in their store for about 10 years before finally selling the last one just about the day before they doubled in price.

If you guys recall CCM used to have a ton of items in stock on their store and on ebay all the time. Carrying that kind of inventory was not good for their business and I don't see them ever having such high levels. Paintball just doesn't move as much volume as it used to.

[gabe]

I'll keep in mind how poorly autococker parts are selling when I see Dye coming out with new parts and Freeflow, Inception, and Shocktech building a business around autococker parts. I work at a company that's falling into the CCM trap and it's not parts moving slowly, it's just that it's easier to project production needs and source materials when you hold backorders, not inventory. It's the new lazy way of running a production company.

[Cunha]

I don't get the sarcasm, I was describing the fact that CCM used to have a ton of inventory sitting around wasting their money (those STO feednecks are one of them) and it is only relatively recently they've trimmed the fat. We're all more than aware that there are plenty of parts CCM makes that sell in a snap, which is the subject of this thread.

But like I mentioned I would email them and see if they ever plan on running those STO necks again because I don't think they have made those since like 08.