Why 86 frame?

[Savet]

I have numerous cockers with a 45 frame and find the 45 frame to point so naturally. Similarly, I have an old SL-68 II that points very naturally. Whenever I try to play with my T2 with an 86 frame, I don't find that same pointability.

Yet, despite my inability to understand the benefits, the CCM community has somehow decided that this frame is preferable and I want to understand why. What am I missing? What am I doing wrong?

Please share your experience, anecdotes, reasons, etc. Why is the 86 frame superior?

[Chuck E Ducky]

Different strokes for different folks.

I love my 86 frames.

[BrickHaus]

I like both honestly. The 86 frame is nice for playing tight, the grip angle allows you to choke up on the shooter, and keep your elbows down. But the .45 frames point extremely well naturally.

[Jonnydread]

I think preference is strongly influenced by how you hold the marker, like BrickHaus is intimating. I find that the .45 frames work better for guns with bottomlines/stocks, but I strongly prefer 86 for any of my freehand builds. 86 feels more natural to me for paintball, 45 for firearms.

[iamthelazerviking]

Not sure, preference and how you're built I guess. I hate thin frames, and 86 look cool, but 45 is all I can use

[SignOfZeta]

If it’s CCM and it’s harder to find then it’s going to get more money and is therefore “better”. A huge chunk of the CCM scene are flippers now and their thinking will trend that way. I’d bet money that 86 degree CCM fans and people who say, “You can’t blame a guy for trying to make a buck.” have considerable overlap.

The 86 thing is a very popular very recent fad. It puzzles me greatly but lots of things about paintball puzzle me so I can’t spend too much time thinking about it. I’m still trying to understand like…Tippmann fans. Cast iron Tippmann junk (now injected plastic Tippmann junk) is way more popular than 86 degree frames and that’s truly puzzling. At least CCMs are beautiful.

[Walker]

It's a fad, and it's CCM........

[Jonnydread]

I think the CCM autococker 86 frames are whatever, but the CCM 86 Phantom frames are the most comfortable frame I think I've ever used.

[Moodog]

This is the correct answer.

[Chuck E Ducky]

CCM didn’t invent the 86 it was an ergonomic design carried over from firearms. CCM markers use to be made to order. People got what they liked. Most went with the 45 because that is what they are use to. Making the 86 more rare hence scalpers charging more for them.

One isn’t better than the other. It’s just an individual preference thing. 45 to me shoots more natural, 86 feels more comfortable. I like the look of an 86 better personally.

I have markers built with both it’s not even something I think about picking up and playing with the different markers.

[Grendel]

CZ75 grip style is where the 86 frame came from. In an actual firearm I am a big fan of the CZ75 and variants and they have real good "printability" when using traditional combat shooting stances. Personally I am not a fan on a paintball marker, too upright for the way I hold a marker. I tend to prefer the more standard 45 frames. I shot an 86 framed CCM deluxe kit on a great sniper I built for a while when Bill first came out with them but eventually traded that kit for a standard kit and never looked back. Definitely a preference thing for a player for sure.

[Njr_11]

I tend to put 86 on mid-block build where there is no back block to smack you allowing to play very tight....

[Savet]

CCM didn’t invent the 86 it was an ergonomic design carried over from firearms. CCM markers use to be made to order. People got what they liked. Most went with the 45 because that is what they are use to. Making the 86 more rare hence scalpers charging more for them.

Yeah, I didn't think that that it wasn't started by them, but I don't really see any other manufacturers following suit at scale so it made more sense to post this in the CCM forum.

I appreciate all the replies. It's nice to read other people's perspectives.

[ChuckLove]

I've shot both but prefer the 45. In time I was able to get used to an 86 but when the rest of my guns are 45 I don't want to have to get used to something.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I don’t know you seem pretty comfortable shooting that MBP with the 86.

[ChuckLove]

Chuck E Ducky it's a standard 45. That's why I shoot it well.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Oh I thought it was an 86 lol

[flyweightnate]

The CCM 86, Angel 90, and at the extreme, Mag Z and Y grips were for hard, vertical bunkers on crowded fields. People used to run 8" drops with peanut tanks, 10" barrels, etc, so they could come around a corner quickly and play tight to a bunker. With the gun sitting on your chest, it's easier to walk a trigger with a more vertical grip angle, since your thumb is naturally pointing back at your chin.

With squishy bunkers it's less of a thing, but on a shorter tank and a midblock, it still feels nice.

[russc]

.45 frames for run and gun, 86 frames for bunker tucking

[BLachance75]

I don't understand how people can say it is a fad. CCM has been making 86 frames for a long time. I find them to be very comfortable and have no problem using them with a tank or in pistol format. I've been putting 86 frames on my markers for at least 10 years.