Has there been any major innovations since the 170R?

[scuzzy]

I am not familiar with every brand and every line, but from what I have seen, it appears that the 170R was the last big jump in innovation on spool valve markers. quickly interchangeable frames, mech, electro, no need to install, reinstall eyes, no need to remove solenoid, tool-less bolt removal, no macro line. If you have experience with any major innovations within PE or other brands, post it.

I know there are improvements to engines and efficiency, but honestly I can't tell much of a difference between a CS3 or a gamma core when it comes to shot quality.

[tyronejk]

I'd argue this innovation peaked with the Etha 2.

But I'd also argue there's still room for improvement. The Gamma core is great for reliability, paint handling, and efficiency, but uses many seals to accomplish this, which makes debugging issues more difficult.

I think pie in the sky innovations would be:
1) self-regulating velocity (could be electronic or mechanical)
2) hopper-fed first strike rounds
3) return of the z-frame (besides looking weird, economically, these make so much more sense)

[JohnB]

With the manual, I have found the gamma core to be very easy to troubleshoot and typically is replacing 1-3 orings that are pretty standard usually. Main issue I have seen it people missing the spring and breaking the shaft part (sail, spool, or rod or whatever is it called ).

[JohnB]

Small steps year after year. I used to think we peaked in ‘08 but the gamma core is next level.

[Ecapnation]

The 170r is no different then previous low / mid range gamma core guns internally

But to that..... How much more "innovative" can a spooler be? The gamma core is efficient, robust, easy enough to work on, mechanical controlled dwell, and BEING COPIED BY DYE AND DLX!

I'd say its the gold standard

[RPP]

My short answer is no.

Detailed/Long answer is yes.

When the OG GTEK introduced the gamma core it completely changed spool valve perceptions. All the sudden they were reliable, almost bulletproof, and much more efficient on air. Historically the Vanquish, shocker/luxe and DM platforms, while having improvements every year, did not have the reliability of the EGO/Poppet platform and were known as air hogs when compared to poppets.

DYE has continued innovating one the "spool" design with the ARC bolt the DSR, and the FL-21 in the M3. For several iterations GOG/SP/DLX/Shocker/Luxe copied the gamma core, but did not properly execute that design and they had bolt speed and paint handling issues. The new Luxe Aire is the first time that the latest luxes do not have the gamma core copy, and it has a new bolt design which was conjured up by Method Designs.

The PE CS3 and 180R has the OP-(R) core... which is a refined Gamma core essentially.

You are right, the CS3 and the Emek will shoot very much the same, but put the CS3 next to he DSR and the difference IMO is quite noticable.

[scuzzy]

I'd argue this innovation peaked with the Etha 2.

But I'd also argue there's still room for improvement. The Gamma core is great for reliability, paint handling, and efficiency, but uses many seals to accomplish this, which makes debugging issues more difficult.

I think pie in the sky innovations would be:
1) self-regulating velocity (could be electronic or mechanical)
2) hopper-fed first strike rounds
3) return of the z-frame (besides looking weird, economically, these make so much more sense)

was the etha 2 before or after the 170? I was out of the game when both were released.

most certainly something will change and shift it all again. A revolutionary idea to change the way velocity/consistency is achieved sounds awesome. I like where you are going with that.

[MrBarraclough]

The Etha 2 slightly predates the 170R. The original Gtek introduced the Gamma Core. The next iteration of it was the 160R. Then the Etha 2 introduces the hoseless layout with the HPR integrated into the ASA/grip and the 170R follows that same layout but with an all aluminum body and frame.

[Ecapnation]

Etha 2 came out during the 160 era

[JonM]

I'd argue this innovation peaked with the Etha 2.

But I'd also argue there's still room for improvement. The Gamma core is great for reliability, paint handling, and efficiency, but uses many seals to accomplish this, which makes debugging issues more difficult.

I think pie in the sky innovations would be:
1) self-regulating velocity (could be electronic or mechanical)
2) hopper-fed first strike rounds
3) return of the z-frame (besides looking weird, economically, these make so much more sense)

A few thoughts here:

• The Gamma Core in the Gtek predates the Etha 2.
• Self regulating velocity is called a regulator. These exist already in both mechanical and electronic form. Anything more that affects velocity introduces too many variables (paint quality, environmental conditions, wind resistance, etc.).
• Hopper fed FSR is certainly an idea - not necessarily a good one, but okay.
• As for the Z-frame, it's not my cup of tea, but to each his own.

Back to the original question, the Planet Eclipse spool valve markers haven't really experienced any major shifts since the original Gtek. Instead, each new model has been an evolution of the previous generation where small improvements add up over time.

[scuzzy]

I'd argue this innovation peaked with the Etha 2.

But I'd also argue there's still room for improvement. The Gamma core is great for reliability, paint handling, and efficiency, but uses many seals to accomplish this, which makes debugging issues more difficult.

I think pie in the sky innovations would be:
1) self-regulating velocity (could be electronic or mechanical)
2) hopper-fed first strike rounds
3) return of the z-frame (besides looking weird, economically, these make so much more sense)

does the etha 2 have a mech frame?

[Ecapnation]

No but that's what the emek is

[JonM]

You can also buy the frame separately to convert it into an Emek. The ability to swap out an electronic frame for a mechanical frame on the PE Gamma Core markers goes back to the GMek frame for the original Gtek.

[MrBarraclough]

Yes...and no.

The Emek IS the Etha 2 mech frame. But it is sold only as a separate marker, not as an optional frame. But if you got your hands on a spare Emek frame somehow, you totally could slap the Etha 2 body and bolt engine on it and it would run fine. They are the exact same marker above the frame.

[1snowridr]

I'd toss the J4 Torque in the ring for innovations. Yes, they're rare. Yes, they had manufacturing issues when released. With that said J4 still stands behind them with a transferable lifetime warranty. Rumor has it, there will be an updated version coming to market at some point.

[scuzzy]

Back to the original question, the Planet Eclipse spool valve markers haven't really experienced any major shifts since the original Gtek. Instead, each new model has been an evolution of the previous generation where small improvements add up over time.

having just purchased an original gtek, and owning a 170R, I would disagree. the simplicity of frame change and maintenance of the 170R over the gtek is very significant. Even the DM14 I had, it was a great shooter, but to disassemble was a total PITA. not having to remove eye wires and the frame completely being removed with 2 screws and nothing else is a large difference to me.

[Jonnydread]

QOL sure, but the main bolt engine is essentially the same

[MrBarraclough]

While I agree that the Gtek/Gmek frame swap is a fiddly pain in the ass (mine will spend months at a time in one configuration or the other), in terms of performance the OG Gtek and 170R are identical.

[SockeyeSteve]

You can't tell a major difference because there isn't enough that even very seasoned players can tell.
170R is peak, honestly. Do I own one? No. Do I regret selling mine? Fully.

I've owned 170R, 180R, CS3, R5 and the differences are so subtle that it really comes down to what you can afford. Sure the R5 is supposedly creme de la creme of PE but the shot signature is the biggest difference between it and every other PE marker.

Even with DLX not the the NXL teams matter to most of us but guys are running Shockers over the Luxe because there's really no ground breaking differences between them so it's player preference

[Fossilhead]

I personally use the emek over everything.
They just rock with a revvy.

Improvements?
Well...
How about a frame swap without tools?

Although... i don't really use the electro frames.

The reason I like the emek over the 170r is the frame.
I'm not a fan of the rubber fore grip.
Opposite of most people's opinion.

[Ecapnation]

No no you're not alone

[ATBen]

I use a 170 and emek regularly and can't tell the difference between shot quality. When I tried the 180 and CS3 I didn't notice any immediate differences either. OP core claimed lower pressure, less recoil and better efficiency. Maybe if I played around with my tank and the settings a bit I'd get a better sense of that, but it was minimal if there was any improvements. Far from any innovation. I started with spyder clones and moved to an automag, so I don't really care about recoil and efficiency of a space gun.

One thing I feel PE could innovate with is the Bluetooth tech they've incorporated in their high end guns. I think from a sports science perspective, having widgets and IoT devices incorporated into a paintball gun, hopper, or tank is a great ideal. Beyond shot counts it could show field positioning when players were eliminated or where they eliminated the other side, whether they were standing, couching, crawling, the angle the hopper was at, average bps in a minute, tank pressures and recharge rates. Tons of data to collect. For who? Idk

[scuzzy]

I just swapped to the e-frame on the original GTEK. Shoots great, just like the 170R.

But the swap is where the 170 shines. Takes a hot minute with the gtek. 170 is stupid simple. Not claiming one is better than the other, but the engineering and design elements for simplicity are obvious.

[JohnB]

Esp if you add an on off to spare frame. That’s how I have my Gtek og, 170, and cs2. Although I typically grab a emek or ETHA 2 tbh

[MrBarraclough]

The Gmek introduced the concept of swapping a mech frame onto a true electropneumatic (as opposed to just adding a sear-tripping solenoid to an older design), so it is of course a bit unrefined. The Gmek walked so the 170R could run. I would never attempt a swap at the field. Too many little fiddly bits and way to easy to drop a screw or critical gasket.