New Planet Eclipse pump

[cheapguitarscheapthrills]

Obviously there's a huge hole in the market for New pump guns right now. Planet eclipse makes arguably the most reliable markers, best mechanical/rental, mag fed, and tournament markers. They could kill it with a Emek based pump that was mid-range priced, light, and good ergonomics. People are already 3D printing custom body kits for the Emek/Etha. What's not to love?

[Ecapnation]

Jack flat out stated no plans for a pump or pistol several times.

The emek drive train also wouldn't translate well to a pump conversion as the bolt returns as part of the cycle.

I've toyed with the idea of a pump body kit where the pump would allow a ball to load....... But design flaw holding the pump back and firing makes it a semi.

[cheapguitarscheapthrills]

I'm not really too much of a tinker guy besides taking a apart and general maintenance. I just figured less R and D and compatible parts with a prolific platform is always good à la Glock everything takes Glock mags.

[Grendel]

Yup, Jack has been very consistent on not getting into the pump market or returning to the Cocker Mech market. Makes perfect sense all it would be doing is adding capitol cost and diluting their own portfolio. Lose/Lose for PE

[iamthelazerviking]

I agree but I don't think it would be big enough if a seller for them to justify the design and production of. Not quite big enough if a demand.

[Ecapnation]

I agree but I don't think it would be big enough if a seller for them to justify the design and production of. Not quite big enough if a demand.

To even expand on that......

Inception doesn't even offer pumps anymore.

[cheapguitarscheapthrills]

I saw that. I wanted something new and I'm just underwhelmed with the options outside of the used market.

[Cyberpyr8]

While I know this community loves pump, I think the greater population of players really don't want to play pump. It makes a manufacturer of any decent size not want to jump in. Heck, Jack has said repeatedly that they won't come back out with an Etek again because they just don't sell that many. They wouldn't put time, effort and R&D money into a very, VERY small market (thus, no pumps or pistols). I think the smaller companies looking to fill a niche would be the best bet. I know Nova has the pump/mix thing coming out soon. Small companies like that would be the better fit.

Is KP still making guns? I know their KP3 was an affordable way to get into pump and seemed to be well liked. It's better than spending the big bucks to get a CCM or similar just to test out playing pump. But I haven't heard anything about them or from them in a while. A covid casualty perhaps?

Would a LV1 pump kit be something that's possible? I'm not technical or knowledgeable in pump design, but with the open bolt, I would think it's more of a candidate for a pump conversion (kind of like the old Karni's) than the Emek or spools out there.

[cheapguitarscheapthrills]

I got into pump with a KP3 maybe 2015 but the aluminum and ano is just cheap. They could be perfect with better manufacturing and a solid reg. I've emailed Nova about the pump I think they said March but I haven't heard anything since

[Cyberpyr8]

The Nova pump is still coming. They have so many things at once, I don't think they can keep up.

[$L!mBo]

i think PE has the speedball and emek demographics cornered and a pump gun wouldnt make sense for them. too small of an already saturated market. folks dont want a new pump platform. they wanna pump kit their rare old cockers or RTR to do another run of gargoyles

[nak81783]

Coincidentally, I was just staring at a cross-section of an Emek during a boring meeting this morning. A handful of ideas, but they either wouldn’t look good or probably wouldn't be enough room to incorporate.

1. “Ladder” loading the in the feedneck. One ball allowed to load, but the space once filled by ball that just loaded couldn’t be occupied until pump handle pushed forward. Basically a double gate system. This would likely result in an old school stovepipe feedneck.

2. Bolt blocker. Allows one shot then blocks bolt until pumped. A lot of details and mechanics to work out here.

3. Trigger valve or transfer pin won’t reset until pumped. Again, details and mechanics to figure out in a small space.

4. Some type of slide-check or 3-way system between trigger valve and core. Pumping back would allow air to charge but prevent venting to start firing sequence. Pumping forward would allow venting to start firing cycle but wouldn’t allow charging for next shot. It’s essentially what the trigger valve already does but it would be a duplicate and need to be manually returned. I like this option best, but again space, mechanics, and details. Might be able to run small hoses out the side of upper portion of the grip to execute this outside the grip frame and in-line with a pump rod.

[Ecapnation]

Three and four are out.... The bolt return on the emek is automatic regardless of the trigger input

[nak81783]

Understood. All my options would be open bolt, and pump stroke would not move the bolt.

For #4, the pump stroke would have to go back to charge and forward to allow venting/firing.

[Morgenstern]

Just attach a pump handle that isn’t linked to anything and pinky swear not to pull the trigger until you cycle the pump ;-)

[iamthelazerviking]

I wish I could share the video on Facebook of the "slamfire" pump Emek. Sure it has a pump handle, but doesn't (can't) operate as a true pump.

[nak81783]

What’s the smallest, commonly-available hose that can handle the regulated input pressure to the Gamma Core? Isn’t the best Autococker 3-way hose rated for 180psi or something like that?

[cheapguitarscheapthrills]

Just the reiterate I don't know shit about Marker design but I like Planet eclipse and pumps. Let a boy dream! I'm also probably pretty skewed on the popularity on pump because New England has a good scene. When Phantoms are coming new from the factory leaking somebody has to step in to fill the void. Empire had some cool stuff years ago and they seem to be floundering at the moment maybe they're big/small enough to make it work. Sell some more of those new JT Revys (they're all GI owned right?)

Always a fun discussion gentlemen

[glaman5266]

Yes, GI has Empire, JT, and a ton of other brands now. And I think this GI is the biggest contributor to the majority of the problems in paintball today. It also doesn't help that they're now owned by an equity group and money is all that matters.

They perhaps do have the ability to create a low-cost pump gun for the masses. I just don't think they'll do it. And it's a damn shame for paintball overall since they're the majority of the North American market.

[glaman5266]

While I know this community loves pump, I think the greater population of players really don't want to play pump.

It makes a manufacturer of any decent size not want to jump in. Heck, Jack has said repeatedly that they won't come back out with an Etek again because they just don't sell that many. They wouldn't put time, effort and R&D money into a very, VERY small market (thus, no pumps or pistols). I think the smaller companies looking to fill a niche would be the best bet.

To your first point, this is very true. Most people are renters, and thus are mech players. Most regulars are mech or electro.

But... Yes, bigger name manufacturers won't want to jump in, but unless they do any pump guns being created are going to be high dollar/premium items. This is not good for pump growth. How does a player know if they want to play pump or not unless it's at a price that they're willing to spend? Or, you know, affordable to begin with; a person isn't going to drop a boatload of cash on a CCM unless that person is a pump enthusiast. Despite all the pumpers who want to grow that game I'm not seeing a push from them for a new entry level pump, which is rather irritating to me. I think the lower end & a larger company NEEDS to get involved if pump is to take off & become a mainstream operating platform/format. And to top it off, as long as GI & the current paint market & monetary practices continue, that's not going to happen.

Eh... maybe it's just my frustration coming out. For years I've said we need more NEW entry level (sub-$200) pump guns. The KP3 isn't appealing to everyone, and the Phantom isn't always pump noob friendly. The used market isn't always an option for people, and doesn't get the eyes that a storefront at a playing establishment gets. So the KP3, Phantom & the used market is not good enough IMO. I think we need at least a couple sub-$200 pump gun options.

[KMDPB]

Dont forget you can still get a sterling new!

[glaman5266]

In my 20 years of playing I've never seen a Sterling on a wall in a proshop and I've met only one person who shot with one. I'm not counting that. They need to be readily available & priced so the average player would actually buy one off the shelf. That's what I believe needs to happen for people to actually give pump a serious try.

And, as Jonny said below, it needs more exposure. A good, high-quality pump gun at a low price might help with that. (see the Emek at release price)

[cheapguitarscheapthrills]

I'm buying a few Sterlings shortly from Australia 🦘 to try different setups. If I let one go I'll post it up here. Be on the look out

[nak81783]

I wish I could share the video on Facebook of the "slamfire" pump Emek. Sure it has a pump handle, but doesn't (can't) operate as a true pump.

Does the pump completely replace the trigger then, or is holding the trigger back still required?

[iamthelazerviking]

If I remember, there's a rod going through the trigger, or attaches to it.

[ketzer7]

Too bad they wouldn't consider doing another limited run of Eclipse customized Sterlings. They used to do those waaaay back in the day!

[Jonnydread]

While I know this community loves pump, I think the greater population of players really don't want to play pump.

I think a lot of that is really just lack of exposure. You're not wrong per se, but in areas that have a lot of pump players we have seen a massive amount of interest and converts. I do agree with your point about it not being worth it for most manufacturers just due to the cost vs. return, but I am a firm believer that most players that dip a toe in the pump waters end up coming back again.

[warbosschoppa]

Too bad they wouldn't consider doing another limited run of Eclipse customized Sterlings. They used to do those waaaay back in the day!

If they didn't jump on that huge popularity of cockers making a come back let alone Belsales doing it they won't.