What's going on with the A-5 and 98 Custom?

[RPP]

Lest we forget that he was around long enough to witness his own cousin steal his company's ideas and start an offshoot to compete with them.

Wow... That's a tidbit that I never knew/realized...

[Ecapnation]

Wow... That's a tidbit that I never knew/realized...

BT......

Ben Tippmann.

He was part of the original company but left when his ideas were being passed over

[RPP]

Hu...there you go. lol. The more you know.

[Magmoormaster]

I believe BT started after the first buyout in 2003/4. It was originally called Ben Tippmann, but changed to Battle Tested within a year IIRC, IDK if there was a C&D sent or if it was just rebranding when they were acquired by KEE. But yeah, the original BT16 was a really interesting gun. Kinda wish they stayed there instead of moving to the BT4.

[Ecapnation]

Before that, we had his stuff in stock in 2002

[RhoXi]

It's sad but not surprising. The whole market has shifted away from blowbacks in general and Tippmanns are viewed by the newer generation as outdated chop machines. Unless they can conjour up an emek at half the price I think they'll be shutting it down before too long. I'm just glad I've got spares for all my tippys

[Trbo323]

It's sad but not surprising. The whole market has shifted away from blowbacks in general and Tippmanns are viewed by the newer generation as outdated chop machines. Unless they can conjour up an emek at half the price I think they'll be shutting it down before too long. I'm just glad I've got spares for all my tippys

I mean the reality is the flex valve really had potential but tippmann always tries to cut production costs and I think they went too far with it to the point that it has quarks and never really lived up to what it could be. If a flex valve without quarks was put into something like a Cronus shell and made affordable I think it would really work out well

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[RhoXi]

I mean the reality is the flex valve really had potential but tippmann always tries to cut production costs and I think they went too far with it to the point that it has quarks and never really lived up to what it could be. If a flex valve without quarks was put into something like a Cronus shell and made affordable I think it would really work out well

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Agreed completely! Everytime I shoot my Crossover I can't help but marvel at its potential. A more simplified and robust (i.e. trigger pin) flex valve could have legs in a modern polymer bodied entry-level gun. Hopefully GI would be willing to spend the cash on Tippmann. It would be a shame for one of the oldest brands in paintball go out with a whimper.

[Trbo323]

Ok yeah, crossover 2.0 there's a good thought.

Mech only
Rework the on/off and trigger so they actually function and feel good
Just give it a standard 2 hole mount ASA and forgrip regulator none of this garbage air through system with no flexibility

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[FlightMedic938]

Trbo323 Yep, that would be the way. Maybe GI wants Tippmann to die off? Could that be a possible explanation? The thought has crossed my mind.

A mech Crossover that’s HPA only with a smoother and stronger trigger pin, lighter spool, and better air regulation seems like a no brainer. At that point it wouldn’t be a Crossover but they could just name it Pro Flex or 2025 Custom or something. Hell, instead of the whole trigger pin poppet thing I bet they could fab up a 3 way trigger to pneumatically control the spool like the Emek. It just doesn’t make sense. Although, on the other hand, if Tippmann came out with a $400 mech only marker, how many would buy it or would it just get shit on by the Emek?

[Tinybear]

Predictable result of time but sad none the less. Paintball as a whole, has long abandoned the blowback as a viable option. They are not cool, harder on paint, generally heavier/bulkier and less air efficient.

I started with a pro carbine as my first gun. Owned a few 98c’s and A5s over the years. Always like them all and always reliable. Not gentle on paint or light but solid reliable shooters. In fact the BEST FINAL BATTLE SETUP I EVER HAD was an A5 with Flatline barrel, RT trigger, and high pressure 77ci air tank. Yeah it chopped a few but it was a beast for the purpose of holding back advancement towards the slapstick’s. I’d shoot all day with my Automag and for final battle switch to the beast with a caddy full of paint.

DAMN this thread…. think I going to look for a Cheap A5 to build I still have a slew of parts laying around for them.

[Trbo323]

Trbo323 Hell, instead of the whole trigger pin poppet thing I bet they could fab up a 3 way trigger to pneumatically control the spool like the Emek. It just doesn't make sense. Although, on the other hand, if Tippmann came out with a $400 mech only marker, how many would buy it or would it just get shit on by the Emek?

The crossover is a modified automag valve so it makes sense the way they did the on/off pin but I do agree that they could rework it

At this point even if they came out with a crossover that had all these fixes I think it's probably too late. The emek has such a hold on that section of the market it would be really hard for tippmann to get in.


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[FlightMedic938]

Trbo323 I’m a huge Tippmann fan obviously but if I didn’t already own an Emek and Tippmann came out with another paintball marker that was marketed towards traditional paintball I’m not sure I’d buy it over an Emek. It would have to cost less and perform almost just as good and I’m not sure how they’d get there. They should’ve never abandoned the traditional mid marker market. I know most consider Tipps entry level but when they were released they were solid mid level until around 2005 or so.

I think another way to get back is to just not compete with the Emek at all. Bring back the traditional high quality body of the Pro family and build high quality “boutique” style blowbacks, electropneumatics, and pumps. Small batches. Only way for that to happen is hopefully they do “die” and either the Tippmann family buys it back and moves production back to the US or somebody else that respects the brand does.

[Trbo323]

Trbo323 I'm a huge Tippmann fan obviously but if I didn't already own an Emek and Tippmann came out with another paintball marker that was marketed towards traditional paintball I'm not sure I'd buy it over an Emek. It would have to cost less and perform almost just as good and I'm not sure how they'd get there. They should've never abandoned the traditional mid marker market. I know most consider Tipps entry level but when they were released they were solid mid level until around 2005 or so. .

Yeah the problem is they would really have to completely abandon their own mentalities to get back into a spot they could compete with the emek. They have done everything they can to cut production costs, that's why the A5 and 98c are cast shells over milled. They went to the point that only 1 of the body pins in the 98 was hardened steel and that was the one that went through the sear which is also hardened steel. The flex valve is a version of the agd valve but WITHOUT the sear. This enabled them to use an aluminum bolt and cut all hardened steel out of the design


.

I think another way to get back is to just not compete with the Emek at all. Bring back the traditional high quality body of the Pro family and build high quality “boutique” style blowbacks, electropneumatics, and pumps. Small batches. Only way for that to happen is hopefully they do “die” and either the Tippmann family buys it back and moves production back to the US or somebody else that respects the brand does.

Ehh, I don't see it. The "boutique" producers that are out there, like freeflow for instance really only make one product, they don't try to branch out and because of that the one product while very nice quality is also very expensive. I don't see anyone wanting to buy a pro carbine for the price of an emek even if it was made really well. Just my thought though maybe I'm wrong

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[mikeds80]

The procarb will always be the default paintball gun in my mind. Someting that tippmann has historically offered, that isn't available today, is the "unrefined quality" style of their 90's guns. Meaning overbuilt, tool-like, but not necessarily sleek. They peaked in this regard with the carbine but continued to develop cheaper maufacturing with the 98 and onwards. Pick up a bt16 and compare it to a 98. Imagine it constructed more like a proam or carbine, and you'd have an idea of what tippmann could have been.