Are box mags REALLY magfed? I disagree

[Arthur]

This statement is absolutely not pointed at anyone here on MCB. But one observation I've had is that some of the most spirited voices in this debate rarely even play.

Every MFOG I've attended caps field reloads for any type of box mag. It's a non issue guys. One good push and that box has run dry - Back to normal mags for you.

Yes, in principal, allowing a box mags into a limited ammo format sounds like an asinine thing to do. In practice though, when well regulated, there is no negative impact to the experience. And if more people actually showed up to the events, they'd know that too. Couple that with that fact that box mags are so incredibly rare on the field anyway.

The real conversation to be having (imo) is why the hell isn't stock class magfed? That's been beaten to death too but I'll go to the grave on that one. Drives me nuts.

[coyote]

Neat sight. Air issues, paint issues, safety issues, inadequate ref staff, started 3 hours late.

[Arthur]

coyote shit I didn't think it was THAT bad, wow.

[Jonnydread]

The experience of coyote has been mine as well. I really like playing magfed, but the events are rarely as organized or well-thought out. Stock class is magfed in my head, a lot of MFOGs have other thoughts.

[Seajay]

Yes for Scenario games / not necessarily for Magfed games.

So the rules around Box Mags on every field I play at is... it must be a commercially available product. So what that means is your home made box-mags aren't legal. The Dye Boxmag and the MCS box mag are legal.

The hopper adapter is not legal because it is a mod and not itself a box magazine.

Gameplay then restricts further use by declaring "Machine Gunners / Heavy Gunners" which are also paint limited in that they cannot refill the box mag on the field. You can carry an unlimited number of Box Mags with you (that feed vertically into a magwell).

Scenario games vs Magfed games are more or less restrictive depending on game type and what other markers are allowed. The scenario itself is a HUGE decision point on what is allowed.
If you want to replicate an MG42 for a scenario you have to do it with some kind of hopper, as this is paintball.

I don't really care about the visuals personally and that shouldn't be a condition if you can use something or not. Requiring no more than 250 fsr/balls on the field with you is pretty common and a great way to regulate the field.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Well technically you could put a regular Rotor board and a few other parts in a box Mag. MG100 users do the mod all the time because it’s Mech. Then you could switch out your over weight $400 rotor that feeds from the bottom at the appeasement of all Magfeeders.

[Arthur]

You could yeah but look at how much modification that is, lol. Just because people can doesn't mean it gets fielded. And just how many of those are you carrying on your person too lol? I know you know these things Chuck but people don't factor the realities and logistics. If it exists then theres this imagined army of box mags doing what speedballers do every weekend or something.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Oh I know we have a bunch of guys running them local. (Big Magfed seen in the North East) Lots of Mg100 owners are running Dumb BoxRotors and that MCS one. But I agree they are not as common. But I see them a lot at MagFed events.

The commercially available product rule makes me laugh. The Mag fed seen is all about the latest mod. Hell they spend more time in the staging area talking about them then actually playing. For me that’s the biggest turn off to it, Down time. The last Mag fed event, and most of the ones I went to spent more time in the staging area. I use to frequent Mag fed games a lot when it was first introduced. Most of the markers were terrible and the box Mag didn’t exist. I played with my Stock Class phantom and had a lot of fun. They allowed them back then. Then stopped and created very restrictive rules as it started to grow. Then the box Mag came along rose in popularity they were everywhere and really pushed the Dye Dam sales for Dye. Then production fell off and the prices went way up on everything. You don’t see them as much but I still think they rune game play. I feel this way because I played before they were introduced and after.

[uv_halo]

Before the MCBpocolypse, there was a 29-page, 286-post, thread of a bunch of us trying to work out, just what is Mag Fed. This is was my last post on the topic:

To summarize:

There is no broad consensus on what should be allowed in Mag-Fed only games, it is very dependent on just what the promoter is trying to run- i.e. limited paint, mil-sim, both, etc.. So, the best advice is to work with whoever is hosting the event and then deal with it by conforming or, voting with your wallet.

The rest of this thread is largely folks (myself included) speculating and asserting just what exactly constitutes a mag-fed gun. There are several guns that aren't explicitly mag-fed but, could potentially be included in a mag-fed only event. Ultimately, it is up to the promoter/host to make the final determination.

If you want to delve into technical discussions on just what can be considered when making a determination on whether a particular gun / loading system is Mag Fed, it's worth checking out. All that being said, without some actual published and formal definition, we as players are purely subject to the hosts determinations.

[Stilgar]

oh hey! you found it! I was looking for that.

[uv_halo]

Yeah, took ma little while to find it- I forgot when that thread was created. A few of the pages didn't get archived but, I believe a majority of it was captured.

[djeclypse]

UV-halo thanks for the link. Time for some reading. And I totally agree that stock class AND stick feed Cram N Jam are definitely in the spirit of magfed. If I can put a MAK in place of my stock class feed, or in the feedneck, there is no reason why I should not be able to reload said stock class with 10 rd "mags" or shove a 10r into a 45deg stick feed in my feedneck. The reason I bought the MAK is because I wanted to play a MFOG with the phantom in Stock class config and was told no. So I found the mak and used it a few times with a few funny looks but no problems. Also, most events I've been to around NJ limit paint on the field to 300 per player and no pods allowed. So it's not necessarily a quantity issue as more so a volume of fire issue. Either way, its paintball, it's fun, and besides the initial hit in equipment, my wallet appreciates the 500 balls for a full day of play, whether its mag or pump.

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[uv_halo]

UV-halo thanks for the link. Time for some reading. And I totally agree that stock class AND stick feed Cram N Jam are definitely in the spirit of magfed. If I can put a MAK in place of my stock class feed, or in the feedneck, there is no reason why I should not be able to reload said stock class with 10 rd "mags" or shove a 10r into a 45deg stick feed in my feedneck. The reason I bought the MAK is because I wanted to play a MFOG with the phantom in Stock class config and was told no. So I found the mak and used it a few times with a few funny looks but no problems. Also, most events I've been to around NJ limit paint on the field to 300 per player and no pods allowed. So it's not necessarily a quantity issue as more so a volume of fire issue. Either way, its paintball, it's fun, and besides the initial hit in equipment, my wallet appreciates the 500 balls for a full day of play, whether its mag or pump.

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As to why Stock Class setups may not be allowed in any given MagFed game:
- The person running the event or making the determination wants the game to be more "MilSim", and just doesn't think a stock class design looks the part.
- Ammo on the field: it is far easier to carry more ammo onto the field in ten round tubes than magazines, both in terms of cost as well as size and weight constraints.
- 10 round tubes interact with the gun in a far different way than all of the strict magfed designs (i.e. MG100, DAM, etc): With a strict design, you will get no more than one shot without a loaded magazine inserted, this effectively means you must stop shooting to reload. In nearly all stock class designs, you are topping off the rounds on/in the gun, and can fire multiple shots during a reload sequence. This is true even if you are inserting a tube into a feedneck, where you can get 1-3shots depening on the gun and feedneck height.

As far as box mags go, it can depend on a couple things. A reason against box mags is that most of the designs sold, allow for refill while the magazine is inserted. This could be mitigated by the person running the game by just prohibiting the refilling of a box mag in game. The main reason why a box mag would be allowed is that it interacts with the gun just like a regular magazine (i.e. you pull it out and get no more than one shot), and it feeds in through a mag well.

As far as a hopper adapted to feed through the magwell, it could be the same thing about MilSim, above. It could also be an issue of whether or not they allow on-field refills of the box mag.. Additionally, it could also be an issue of capacity- I'm fairly certain such a device could be setup to hold more than any of the commerically available box mag designs (i.e. with a pinokio hopper).

[vijil]

It's the same reason that a pump tournament director may decide to dissallow AT. It changes the skills involved. A magfed director may want to see the particular skills required to reload 20 round spring loaded magazines, and want players to be able to predict when people are reloading etc.. Allowing other setups might not gel with that. It's similar to the reasons we play limited paint in the first place.

There's also the risk of magfed becoming not-magfed. Say you run a magfed event and 60% of the players show up with stick feeds and 30% boxmags - you start to question the point. How strict you need to be will depend on what people tend to bring.

[Scougar]

I have been playing magfed exclusively for 8 years. I don't think they should be allowed, as it ruins the concept of magfed, and against the spirit of it.

I say that even though I'm developing a small boxmag kit. I put this project on hold for 7ish years (literally on the shelf), as I watched others play with Dye Boxmags etc. I only started it again as I was due to play a big game at EMR with the PE guys, and wanted to avoid a hopper if possible.

What are they good for?

1. Special scenarios in bigger magfed games. I do think they shouldn't be allowed in 'speedball' configuration, as again, that completely ruins the spirit of it. (milsim, milshim... but I think you can see where I'm coming from... if using a boxmag, it should be big an unwieldy... not running around with a short barrel and peanut tank on auto fire).
2. Regular paintball. I actually played my first game in 8 years of 'normal' paintball at Supergame in Indiana. I HATED going back to a hopper. It felt unbalanced, and I didn't like the view lol.

To me, running a literal hopper on a mag adaptor is just the ultimate piss take.

[Seajay]

So we have Scenario, Mag-Fed, and Mil-Sim.

I really don't think there is a difference between a Dye BoxMag and a Hopper using an adapter to feed through a magwell. I'd allow it for a Mag-Fed game, and of course a scenario game which is usually open-class anyways.
Ultimately for these games the rules will dictate how they are used, how many per team, etc... easily balanced.

Mil-Sim I think is another monster entirely. For this game style the looks do matter, since we are now trying to role-play a specific event in a particular style. If visually and mechanically it functions as a box fed ammo system then it would be fine in my book. You would need to dress the marker up to look the part. The niche of the niche. There is a level of effort being demonstrated that should be met by everyone taking part.

If someone showed up with a MAX Loader feeding an ION dressed up as a mini-gun it would just be wrong to say you can't play. Side/Top fed weapon systems exist, backpack mini-guns exist, it's awesome to see.