What's wrong with the HK SABR? Can it be saved?

[The Inflicted]

When I first saw the HK SABR I was pretty impressed- it seemed to me like it was a really well-thought out upgrade to the usual Spyder clone- autococker-threaded, clamping or quick-strip everything, hidden air hose... it even had thoughtful laser-etched "+ and -" marks on the velocity adjuster.

However, seeing a couple of these things in person, they're just kind of... bad. Compared to, say, a decade-old Spyder Victor they're shockingly loud, the trigger is creepy, and based on what I saw the users going through in a day, seem to break a lot of paint.

What's the deal with these things? Did the factory just get the spring balances totally wrong? You wouldn't think that in the 2020s the Taiwanese OEMs that make these things haven't figured out how to make competent Spyder clones, but the D3fy Vert3x (God, just typing that gave me a headache) has the same issues.
Is it just the springs or is there something more fundamental that makes the SABR less than its potential would suggest?

[Jonnydread]

I don't know the answer, but I am also curious. They seem to suffer from Azodin syndrome where all the pieces are there and correct, but unfortunately they are less than the sum of their parts.

[Cyberpyr8]

I've seen the same thing. They are a cannon in terms of sound. I don't know that I have heard another gun as loud as these things. I can tell you when someone has one on the field, and where they are. It's really bad.

I have also seen the issues with them breaking paint and not performing. Everyone that I have seen used, hasn't finished the day. I let a kid borrow my emek one day after his went down. Others have been with a parent that either rented them an emek or had something else for them to use. It's a shame. I would recommend the Cronus or a 98 over the Sabr. I'm not sure why they are so bad, but I cringe every time I see someone show up with a new Sabr. I know it's money wasted and too late for them to make a better choice. None of the people I have seen with them come back with the sabr again. It's always a rental or a mini or something from the shop that they buy.

[Trbo323]

What's wrong starts with the HK part of the name. These things are just a money grab if you ask me. They are about double the price they really should be. HK hypes the ever living piss out of everything and then this marker can't live up to that hype because it's a spider victor that has an airline that hugs the frame and it's nothing more than that.

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[SignOfZeta]

Maybe they make it sucky on purpose so you’ll want an electro. Look how ugly it is. That wasn’t an accident, maybe the performance is designed to offend as well. Maybe it’s like the USDM Ford Fiesta, a trick played on anyone foolish to buy it. Built to teach the buyer a lesson, the lesson being that the OEM don’t want you buying stuff that cheap and they will make you suffer for it.

[Ecapnation]

It's entirely a cash grab to push into the lower end market by HK.... meanwhile it's a rebranded import that's been around and basically ignored by the us market.

Saved? Recycled into something more useful but not saved

[iamthelazerviking]

This is a rebranded Chinese marker that's been around a while. I forget the original name but HK slapped their name and marketing all over it. In my opinion, absolute hot pile of trash. As others so mentioned already, the ones I've seen only chopped terribly and other problems leaving an angry player.

[Ecapnation]

I think the maddog? And maybe something snake related

[The Inflicted]

This is a rebranded Chinese marker that's been around a while. I forget the original name but HK slapped their name and marketing all over it. In my opinion, absolute hot pile of trash. As others so mentioned already, the ones I've seen only chopped terribly and other problems leaving an angry player.

V-Mech Eagle Claw, although the Sabr makes a number of improvements to the body.

https://iisports.com/products/copy-of-d3fy-vertex-spyder-style-paintball-mechanical-marker-black-vert3x?_pos=1&_sid=bf522fce9&_ss=r&variant=37302445637799

Again, I feel like the Sabr SHOULD be a good gun, it just isn't for some reason and I'm betting it's the springs.

[woouulf]

The HK Saber is internally just the same as a D3fy Conquest / Vertex . Made in the same factory with the same Bolt and Valve..80% of the problem with breaking paint is shooting to fast, 20% Fragile paint. My guess is a Blowback issue, give a fraction of a second for the trigger pull for the stack to drop back down.. When D3fy stopped production HK bought back all the internals from D3fy for HK Saber and the first run of D3fy's had o-ringed bolts that caused blow back and they came up with a non ringed bolt for a "SEMI" fix.. I ended up buying about 160 of the D3fy store returns, I had to replace all the bumpers due to being made out of junk materials and upgraded the bolts in the old models...I have sold about 30 with the understanding not to over shoot , these are starter, cheap Markers ..Overall bad investment on my part...FML!

[The Inflicted]

The HK Saber is internally just the same as a D3fy Conquest / Vertex . Made in the same factory with the same Bolt and Valve..80% of the problem with breaking paint is shooting to fast, 20% Fragile paint. My guess is a Blowback issue, give a fraction of a second for the trigger pull for the stack to drop back down.. When D3fy stopped production HK bought back all the internals from D3fy for HK Saber and the first run of D3fy's had o-ringed bolts that caused blow back and they came up with a non ringed bolt for a "SEMI" fix.. I ended up buying about 160 of the D3fy store returns, I had to replace all the bumpers due to being made out of junk materials and upgraded the bolts in the old models...I have sold about 30 with the understanding not to over shoot , these are starter, cheap Markers ..Overall bad investment on my part...FML!

Interesting. Is the bolt also the reason why a Vertex/SABR is like twice as loud as a Spyder?

Also, I'm surprised that it would be the bolts WITH the O-rings that were leading to blowback. You would think the opposite would be true unless the ringed bolts were all made with too small and OD.

[Trbo323]

V-Mech Eagle Claw, although the Sabr makes a number of improvements to the body.

You sure this isn't the other way around? These are listed as 2021, I thought the sabr came out earlier like 2019 area.

If the sabr was first then this is the exact same thing that happened to the vs1 back around 2009. The factories in Taiwan either overproduced or it was right when spyder shut down production. Either way all of a sudden this marker called the ew1 came on the market out of nowhere from a company nobody had ever heard about. It had all of the same features as the VS1 and was almost half the price ($60 if my memory is correct).

If that is the case, and these eagle claws are just the factories getting rid of back stock. Also I'm not going to lie if I was in an Indonesian factory trying to sell to an American audience something with eagle in it would seem like a good name

Maybe they should be the freedom eagle fighter jet9000.

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[Ecapnation]

Thundercougerfalconbird!

[woouulf]

Im pretty sure I have it right (by a few years), the D3fy's were made first and the Saber came out after the production ended and D3fy stopped selling markers..and yep who wouldda thought a non o-ring bolt would help...But yep......I haven't checked, but could be the hole in the bolt is off on the the gen 1 bolts and it was just cheaper to do the non ring thing??

[The Inflicted]

Im pretty sure I have it right (by a few years), the D3fy's were made first and the Saber came out after the production ended and D3fy stopped selling markers..and yep who wouldda thought a non o-ring bolt would help...But yep......I haven't checked, but could be the hole in the bolt is off the the gen 1 bolts and it was just cheaper to do the non ring thing??

Yeah, the Eagle Claw definitely predates the SABR, at least by a few months.

https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/paintball-news-aa/the-dead-zone/58823-1st-major-marker-release-of-2021

Having the exhaust ports out of alignment would potentially explain all kinds of problems with the guns, including the blowback and poor efficiency. Wonder if anyone with a lathe has ever tried making a properly-speced derlin bolt that has O-rings AND lines up with the valve at the moment of firing.

[Trbo323]

Yeah, the Eagle Claw definitely predates the SABR, at least by a few months.

https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/paintball-news-aa/the-dead-zone/58823-1st-major-marker-release-of-2021

Having the exhaust ports out of alignment would potentially explain all kinds of problems with the guns, including the blowback and poor efficiency. Wonder if anyone with a lathe has ever tried making a properly-speced derlin bolt that has O-rings AND lines up with the valve at the moment of firing.

Yeah, the Eagle Claw definitely predates the SABR, at least by a few months.
.

Huh, that means most likely someone sold the design to HK since 2 companies would have to have been working on production at the same time.

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[Ecapnation]

No....hk private labeled the eagle claw from China....